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Did anyone read the report on common purpose in last weeks Mail? Sinister is not the word, downright terrifying is more like it, and the political class is up to their eyeballs in it.
Stephen, yes, also check out Guido Fawkes who has reproduced a rather good graphic from the Sunday Times showing the links between Common Purpose and the press regulation lobby. I hope this exposure doesn’t fade but it is already showing signs of doing so. One of the most worrying aspects to this is the Common Purpose link to the higher echelons of the police. Like Mr Gerrish, I too am concerned by the idea of policemen, especially secret policemen, “leading beyond authority”. They are supposed to uphold the rule of law impartially, on behalf of those they serve, rather than criticise governments (or support them) in party political terms, lobby for more powers or hold press conferences where they openly name and shame suspects and use language as though those suspects have actually been convicted in a court of law. All reminiscent of show trials, kangaroo courts and East Germany. No thanks.
http://order-order.com/2012/11/18/public-dont-prioritise-press-regulation/#comments
On the news just now, David Cameron compares Britain’s economic predicament to a war, calling for war time powers to deal with it. No mention of who could play Churchill in this whimsical distraction, but as for Chamberlain, I think CMD is perfecting the role in Europe just about now.
This is worth posting in full here I think. It refers to the USA, but its implications are also for England:
http://www.rickackerman.com/2012/11/the-looters-are-in-control/#more-51442
November 19, 2012
The Looters Are in Control
[And now it’s time for Mr. Obama to start paying for all those votes by reaching deep into our pockets. If you intend to avoid paying your “fair share,” however, please take note: There will be few places to hide. For a gimlet-eyed view of what may lie in store for taxpayers and citizens of all political persuasions during the next four years, ponder the guest commentary below, from Wayne Siggard, a regular in the Rick’s Picks forum. RA]
The election was all about new math: 47 = 51. The foresight and genius of the Founders knew no bounds. Ben Franklin said, “Once the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” The trumpets have sounded. The heralds have announced the awakening of the masses to that reality. The greatest and most free nation the world has ever known has just sold its birthright for a mess of pottage; or, at least, the promise of an Obama phone. The takers have voted to take control over the producers.
Everyone will now get a fair shot — except that those who work in government and those who take government welfare will get a fairer shot. Obama knows that you didn’t build that company. You didn’t live frugally and save more money than your neighbor while they spent theirs on drugs or riotous living. He knows this because he didn’t get anything without government assistance — affirmative action put him ahead of more qualified people who earned a spot that he took, just like Elizabeth Warren. You couldn’t possibly have gotten anything on your own merit or hard work.
A claim for material position can be met only by a government with totalitarian powers. – Friedrich von Hayek
Von Mises said that full government control of all activities of the individual is virtually the goal of both national parties. Have you ever tried to drill an oil or gas well? Have you ever tried to build a house or commercial building? Have you ever tried to manufacture and sell a product? The International Building Code (IBC) increases in size, restrictions and requirements every year. Why? Because a bureaucracy needs to expand to justify its existence.
Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. – Lord Acton
Have you ever experienced the disdain and contempt of a bureaucrat whose permission you sought? It used to be that their power to grant a license or permit was retribution for their pay being less than that of the private sector. Now, you get to pay them 50% more than you would get for the same job, and the disdain has not decreased. Firemen, police officers, and military personnel can retire as young as 38, many making over $100,000 per year if they work until 50, and many can take another job and collect another pension on top of the first. Meanwhile, according to the Census Bureau, the average middle class family’s income has decreased $4,019 during the Obama years, to $50,964. More than half of the lifeguards in Newport Beach, CA, make over $150,000 per year and can collect more than $100,000 in pension benefits starting under 50 years of age.
So, What’s Coming?
That paradigm of preternatural prestidigitation, the Federal Reserve Bank, will continue its policy of zero percent interest. The big banks will mask their insolvency with free money from the Feds. Greedy speculators and fools who overspent on housing will have their mistakes paid for by those taxpayers who had the foresight to save and invest wisely. Obama bundlers and other insiders will continue to get billion dollar investments from the government, sucking valuable capital from the private sector. The official inflation rates will miraculously stay low while you are paying 100% more for gasoline and food.
History is largely a history of inflation, usually inflations engineered by governments for the gain of governments. – Friedrich von Hayek
Foreign nations are no longer purchasing U.S. government bonds. The largest purchaser is the Federal Reserve Bank. In other words, the government is printing money from thin air. In 1970, you could go to Las Vegas and buy a silver dollar for one paper dollar. It now costs around $35. A mansion behind the Beverly Hills Hotel sold for $200,000. It resold in 2004 for $16 million. A house in Flintridge, CA, sold for $115,000. Its current value is $4.5 million. The base price for a Corvette was $5192. It is now $49,600, a comparative bargain. What you could buy for $1 million in 1970 now takes $36 million. Senator Everett Dirksen in the 1960s is reputed to have remarked,” a billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon we’re talking real money.” You can now add three zeros. The bottom line is that if you are collecting 0.15% interest on your CD, you are losing real purchasing value of at least 10%, and that rate will be accelerating in the next four years. Carlo Ponzi was a hopeless naïf compared to our elected officials.
Harry Reid Has a Plan
Harry Reid already has a bill on his desk which requires that all pension plans (except for the unions, of course), 401Ks, and IRAs be converted to annuities from the government. This pile of cash represents the largest pile of readily available cash in the world right now. The money will be gone as soon as it hits the government’s account, and you will be left with empty promises. There is no money, only a printing press.
Capital export controls will be enacted. You will not be able to get your money out of the country. Already you can no longer open a bank account in Switzerland unless you have over $30 million because the reporting requirements are too onerous for a smaller account. All requests to Switzerland for visas from Americans will be suspended. History will be repeated (shocking, I know), and all gold in private hands will be confiscated. The Republicans will cave, the tax rates will rise, and anyone making more than the insider politicians and government employees will encounter ever-increasing marginal tax rates.
Payoffs for votes will be made. Affirmative action requirements will be increased in every field of endeavor. Women’s abortions and contraceptives will be free. Regulations will stop the advent of fracking and the boom in oil and natural gas will come to an abrupt halt. Payments to environmental groups for lawyer’s fees will expand exponentially. Government-controlled lands with oil and gas potential will be declared wilderness or national monuments, just like Grand Staircase-Escalante in Utah. I could go on for another ten pages, but , in a nutshell, the message from Mr. Obama is, “You lost.”
And finally, Israel has recognized that Mr. Obama will offer no succor. Before the end of January, they will raid Iran. Gasoline will reach $7 per gallon, and voila, solar and wind energy will be competitive. No matter that your thermostat is set at 40 degrees, if you can get fuel or power.
The looters are in control. Set your alarms.
Malfleur – Thank you for the above! It is horrifying. Anyone got any ideas, other than the obvious one?
Stephen Mayberry (10:39)
Did anyone see the DM article on CP???
Read last week’s thread. It is replete with CP. Where’s ya bin?
“Gasoline will reach $7 a gallon.” I wish!
Obviously Wayne doesn’t travel often to the UK. Wanna buy a used car Wayne?
Middle East update:
http://app.response.stratfor.com/e/es?s=1483&e=611795&elq=3c2840f0af4845d69b5ddcf08b3089ce
Get used (inured even) to the future now.
More still:
http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2012/11/18/i-want-the-world-and-everything-in-it/
The West is either being led by evil men, or just downight feckin’ idiots, ora combination of both; take you pick – and we are all in the undertow – whichever.
It’s being led by stupid men who are on the make and think they are in control of events.
Frank P
November 19th, 2012 – 17:33
I have come to believe that stupid people are more dangerous than evil ones. What do others think?
They are dangerous in different ways. The evil ones are dangerous by design, of course. But the stupid ones are easily led by the motivated evil ones. This has been proven time and again in history. I don’t think the vast majoritiy of German people were evil … but they acted evily at the behest of the clever, manipulative evil ones.
P from Maidstone 17:41 – I think, although perhaps not intentionally, you have painted a portrait of David Cameron. I think Cameron is a very dangerous man indeed, although he may not (or may, I have no opinion) of evil intent.
Anne (17:51)
It’s the cocktail of all three mixed in various permutations and toxicity quotient that is doing for us. It will get worse before it gets better – I doubt you and I will see ‘better’ – the ‘worse’ will be a veee-rrry protracted spiral downwards.
When eavesdropping the USSR and satellites during my army days, I never felt as pessimistic for my country, or the West at large, in those days as I do now. We had the resources; the military; the know how and the moral high-ground. Added to that the gratitude of the several million rescued from the clutches of Adolph. There were quislings and traitors even then, of course, some of them in high office, but treachery of the current geopolitical mix is mind-blowing.
Obama’s puppeteers managed to rig this last election and his impetus will now quicken the Long March into double-time with a strut – nay, a goose-step. The Kool Aid sure worked, but the election was rigged! And short of bloody revolution, we may as well hang up our keyboards, monitors and earphones. Cue Sir Dickie Mottram (before he got his pay-off to Amey’s Army to curb his tongue).
There is one glimmer of hope: if they push Israel too far ….? The only country in the ‘Western Alliance’ with cojones. Dis-feckin’-graceful! It’s no bigger than Noo Joisey – and surrounded! And the Western Media are batting for the surrounders. Basta!
Btw – would somebody please pop outside and kick that Kundt with his tongue on the window in the bollix, please! ‘Scuse my French, Anne, but it’s time for plain talking and less navel gazing. There’s no way we have any chance of any Naval gazing these days it seems? I see no ships – only hardships.
Same old … same old …
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/333622/pallywood-body-double-mark-steyn
Frank P: “There is one glimmer of hope: if they push Israel too far ….?”
I wish they would. Do it now, Israel. Go get ’em.
Melanies posting-one-an-hour at the moment;
http://melaniephillips.com/
Keep it up, gal!
I guess that stupidity needs evil, and evil uses stupidity. What would Himmler, Goering and Goebbels have been without Hitler? But they were evil in their stupidity, as Hitler himself was stupid and insane in his evil.
Frank P
November 19th, 2012 – 18:45
Frank, as usual I am in complete agreement with you, and yes, I forgive your ‘French.’ The lunacy going on today is enough to make the angels swear, let alone weep.
Dean Street
November 19th, 2012 – 18:56
Yes!
Peter from Maidstone
November 19th, 2012 – 19:04
Indeed, and add hubris to the evil and stupidity and tragedy results. Tonight I am watching part 2 of “The Dark Charisma of Adolph Hitler” on BBC TV2 at 9:00 pm.
His grasp of how politics works is very interesting. I mean that he knew what he was doing from early on and did it very well.
We are at least fortunate that our politicians are like Himmler, Goebbels and Goering, and lack the insights that perhaps Blair had best. But he was willing to follow the gravy train rather than the power trip, fortunately.
Frank P 19th, – 19:00
“Melanies posting-one-an-hour at the moment;”
Liked her well balanced piece in the DM today.
Stephen mayberry
Yes Ms.Middleton’s gang was discussed here.
The newspapers have wounded the Inquiry, which was the intention. Imagine if a number of assessors were found to be Freemasons, the BBC-Guardian nexus, led no doubt by its Common Purpose graduates ,would have demanded new members.
The Inquiry is now discredited and we will hear more about Common Purpose now that it is more widely known.
Now here’s a journalist doing his job:
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/11/19/AP-Reporter-Slams-State-Department-For-Silence-On-Israel
The core problem is the west has started a massive social and economic experiment and somehow its political class has convinced the vast majority of its citizens that they are going through a natural almost evolutionary process.
The chairman of the CBI today described the GCSE based education system as the: “Cult of the average”.
Where has he been throughout the legislation to enforce “Equality” ? What does he think using Equal Outcomes as the performance indicator for equal opportunities leads to?
The fallacy of proportionate outcomes is now enshrined in law. No society has ever tried to enforce quotas in this way before. We don’t know how such a society will function.
I commented before about our demographics, the reason we, by which I mean Europe ,is ageing and losing its indigenous population is our social model works against bringing up children.
Some research from the Centre for Longitudinal Studies ,this is for the UK but with the population profiles of continental Europe must apply there.
40% of women graduates are childless at 35.30% are childless at 45.
So who are having the children?
The Daily Telegraph has put up a pay wall. Bye-bye Barclay Brothers. Let’s hope that the “Everything Must Go” signs which are up at the Comet chain, which the BBs just bought, will soon be hanging above the door at the DT and the Spectator. There must be someone with deep pockets who would like to see those items turned into conservative publications.
Ostrich (occasionally)
“Liked her well balanced piece in the Mail today”
Yes, indeed. What is this ‘Twitter’ thingy? Sounds terrible. I think I hear it in the small wee hours when my hearing aids are out. Or perhaps its the freakin’ pigeons. Is Telemuck the window licker involved? If so – ban it immediately.
Frank P 19th, – 21:57
“What is this ‘Twitter’ thingy?”
‘s funny, that comment of hers about Twitter [ ] being a boon was the one thing I’d take issue with.
Malfleur 19th, – 20:40
“There must be someone with deep pockets who would like to see those items turned into conservative publications.”
There is…he was doing the rounds a month ago, setting down markers for a bloodbath of score-settling with a few of those who did him down when he ended up in the slammer.
Malfleur (20:28)
Tried to watch the video on that link; I just got a black page – no go area. Have ‘they’ pulled it?
Ostrich (Occasionally)
Did you ever see anything like this when you were at sea:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdPHtrjlmMs
This is a better vantage point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za46Rmc5hxI
Genetics & Islam
Herbert Thornton
November 18th, 2012 – 22:37
‘Peter,
When you say (18 Nov. 21:17) that you don’t buy “..that Islam is adopted only by genetically deficient peoples because such peoples would never have developed advanced civilizations” I suspect that somewhere along the line we have both become a bit confused…’
Is their enough room for another person to join in the confusion?
A few years ago I though a lot about the potential ‘genetic’ characteristics of the followers of Islam.
It seemed to me that the obvious dedication and fervor of many adherents stood in stark contrast to the patently hollow nature of Islam; Islam’s utter failure to nurture any joy or grace.
I conclude that this was simply what one would expect from a successful cult. I regarded Islam as an energized form of humanity as opposed to a tainted recognition of the divine (it also being founded on the sexual control of women of course).
However, that did not explain the obvious visceral power that Islam clearly exerted over the Moslems that I spoke to. Devout or not; the same power was so often discernable.
It is wrong to dismiss the notion of some genetic component.
This idea of genetics attempts to bridges the gap(s) between a cultural/economic/social explanation of the phenomena of Islam. This is because a more complete explanation is so obviously needed.
How on this earth could something that has given so little to so many have lasted this long?
There is more to it.
We don’t need to learn much more about Islam. We do need to learn much more about genetics.
John Richardson … “We don’t need to learn much more about Islam. We do need to learn much more about genetics.”
I agree. Can you see an islamic male doing this?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2235211/Liu-Xianping-Chinese-grandfather-posed-teenage-girls-outfits-sees-photos-global.html
Of course not! Their dress sense is too crappy. Plus they have absolutely zero sense of humour. Ever seen a stand-up islamic comic?
Verity.
Ha.
Ha ha ha ha.
Still, we can’t boil all ‘clash of civilisation’ type issues down to whether an elderly man looks good in his grandaughter’s fashionable outfits can we. Can we?
John Richardson – no. But whether an elderly Chinese man was prepared to pose in women’s clothes, and make a serious effort to look interesting and then do a neat dance at the end … yes, I think we can boil a clash of civilisations down to this. This man is light of heart and he wanted to help his granddaughter get publicity (which he has – worldwide). Can you see a son of allah taking off his djeballah to look cool and funny … even less to help a woman succeed in business? I would say it is a grim clash of civilisations if I considered the sons of allah civilised.
Posing in a grand daughter’s designs to help her establish her business is a long way from snipping off your grand-daughter’s clitoris to keep the money in the family. There is absolutely no point of comparison between islam and the advanced civilisations of the Far East and the West.
Benghazi is hotting up; NBC have now joined the fray. Lindsay Graham will not be silenced. Benghazigate is now becoming too hot to handle, even for the compliant MSM. I smell blood. Bob Woodward (he of Watergate fame) is now batting for Fox. Krauthammer has his teeth into it and Catherine Herridge, Fox’s investigative sleuth should get a Pullitzer for her determination, application and sources. If only someone of her ilk existed in the UK.
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/graham-benghazi-rice-stevens/2012/11/18/id/464598?s=al&promo_code=10C8E-1
Meanwhile the London Spectator predictably punts the trivial:
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/8760631/the-fall-of-petraeus/
WTF is Kelley Beaucar Viahos? Could it be that she is one of the notorious twin Mati Hari’s of Florida and Washington Fame? The two Lebanese destroyers of Generals? I think that’s how Lebanese is spelled 🙂
Antiwar.com? Is Trolltopia now becoming pacifist, too, as as well as both puerile and crypto-Marxist?
Frank P — “The two Lebanese destroyers of Generals? I think that’s how Lebanese is spelled :-)” Naughty boy!
Frank P
November 20th, 2012 – 00:22
No, I just tried it. It’s OK.
In po-faced Britain the posing grandfather in teenage girls clothing would probably have had a dawn visit from the police, the social services and a posse of fake childrens charities. And the granddaughter would have been grilled too.
“When did you last see your grandfather? Did he suggest anything inappropriate?”
Ethnicity and nationality is everything too. If a white, British grandfather had done this here the reaction would have been quite different.
John Richardson, about genetics.
What I am saying is that many of the peoples who have adopted Islam as their majority religion have been successful empires at other times. I was disagreeing with the view that Islam is adopted by genetically failing peoples. The Persians are Muslim but their empire was very long lasting, for instance. At which point did their genes change?
The Russian people were willing to love as slaves for much of their existence, does this make them suited to Islam? The majority of people in Britain are now living on benefits derived from the minority who work, what of their genetics?
My views on Islam are well known. But it seems to me that it is not reasonable to consider only Islam in relation to servile ways of living. There are many others. Indeed it could be said that there is a universal layer within societies which is willing to just do what they are told, or do as little as possible, or submit to the most appalling conditions at the hands of others.
What I am saying is that it is not possible to say “Look at the noble Persian people, what strong genes they must have!”, and then say, “Look at those Iranians, what defective genes they must have!”. They are the SAME people.
And when I look around the UK I see a lot of people who blindly follow any lie they are sold and who do not have much beauty or value in their lives. What of them? Genes are an excuse. There are millions of secret Christians in Islamic countries. They are able to compare Islam and Christianity and have made a dangerous choice. There are millions of British people who never bother thinking at all.
How many Iranians, I wonder, would like to live without islam and the sharia society that has been brutally imposed upon them? A large proportion of them, I hazard a guess.
.
Well-wisher, November 20th, 2012 – 07:33
The are still some true, diehard, Scotchmen that are to be seen wearing skirts in public.
Scotland used to be a multi-kilty society. It didn’t work.
The different tribes used to murder their equally wretched neighbours – presumably only because of their dress sense. One loose word and the claymores and dirks were flying. “Ooo that tartan is SO last year, ducky” etc.
They probably would have become extinct if the English (General Wade etc.) hadn’t put a stop to all that sort of thing . Alex Salmond is living proof…. er… that maybe we shouldn’t have interfered.
Frank P 20th, – 00:37
G’morning, Frank!
Yes, I did, on a few occasions, although the only ones I specifically remember were in the Bay of Bengal in 1965, probably because they were the first I’d ever seen. (I was apprentice on only my second ship.) When your top speed is 12 knots and one of those comes motoring across the ocean at 30 knots (as measured by radar) you’ld better hope it doesn’t have your name on it, ‘cos there’s no avoiding it if it has! But it begs the thought, “Why did I see so few more of them in the ensuing 40 years?”
EC 20th, – 10:12
“used to be a multi-kilty society.”
“Ooo that tartan is SO last year, ducky”
Nice ones!
John Richardson
There seems to be a genetic factor in all religions. Religious faith itself seems to be a product of how our brains function and when certain areas are stimulated ,say in some forms of epilepsy, it results in a religious experience.
We are creatures of our genetics which is also why we seem to want strong “leaders”—all hard wired from a time when the pack leader led the troop.
Thinking about a possible referendum on our EU membership would EU citizens in the UK get a vote?
Religious faith is certainly not genetic. Only social scientists who have no idea what being a real Christian means would say that. And religious experience is certainly not epilepsy.
As to other points, if most Iranians/Persians don’t want to be Muslim then it cannot be said that they are genetically predisposed to be Muslims.
And I don’t want a strong leader at all. Nor do most conservatives.
I can’t post the images here but try googling Heinrich Himmler in images and then Herman Van Rompuy. Compare and contrast. Most amusing.
Alone chid abandoned on the fringes of society…grows wild.
He learns the creed of wolves and coyotes…hunt or be hunted.
He learns to live in makeshift shelters.
He learns to socialise with the pack.
He learns to eat raw meat.
He learns to fight for his rights.
He learns to heal himself.
He understands the term self…the laws of the jungle
Isn’t this social Darwinism in action?
(Enimreh)
It is not genetics or Darwinism but Social Darwinism and just at present Christianity is not the fittest.
Yes James I do think that EU citizens would get a vote in a referendum on our continued membership of the pork barrel club, although if anyone thinks the political class will keep any promises made in that direction they really aught to see a doctor. The only ones denied a vote will be the WASPS who can not be trusted to vote the right way. Doubtless Abu Hamza will be made the returning officer for the whole circus.
I think that Herman Van Rompuy should be appointed the next England football manager. His post match interviews would provide a riot of laughter. Or maybe just a riot….
Peter From Maidstone
“Social” and “Scientists” are unfortunate combinations.
The studies of religious experience and epilepsy are well known which is one of the reasons Muslims are so sensitive about accusations that Mohamed was epileptic.
See:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2003/godonbrain.shtml
And
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18171635
Well Wisher –
I tried googling them both at once –
http://2012lavoixdupeuple.over-blog.com/article-heinrich-himmler-herman-van-rompuy-97113272.html
if clicking on it doesn’t work, then maybe copy & paste into the browser
Stephen Mayberry
I know that only Irish citizens get to vote on constitutional changes there ,such as when they sign a new EU treaty.
There may be “classes” of electorate.
There is a momentum now which is out of the control of our political class, they will soon realise they need to manage the inevitable referendum rather than try to put it off.
What we really need is a cost-benefit analyses to stop some of the nonsense about “40% of our trade” without saying that we run a deficit with the rest of the EU or the silly Norway comparison as if Germans would refuse to sell us their products if we did not introduce the Working Time Directive.
Organisations such as the CBI are part of the problem as they represent the type of companies that gain most.
James102, as I said, these bear no relation to real Christian experience. Indeed all such experience is rejected in real Christianity.
Commonwealth citizens allowed to be resident in the UK were eligible to vote in the AV referendum. Using the same logic it would mean that Pakistani, Indian and Bangladeshi citizens who happen to be able to live here can decide whether or not the UK is part of the EU.
Democracy in action!
Peter from Maidstone
Yes although I’m not sure they are that keen on European immigration, it is after all the people at the bottom of our social economic pile that are in competition with them.
As I have written a number of times, our political class do not believe in the concept of nationality so spreading the right to vote to foreign citizens is consistent with that.
P from M – I realise it’s a side issue on your post, but I would be the last person to accuse the Iranians of having weak genes. They are among the most charming, quick-witted, funny people on earth. I don’t think the comparison serves your purpose. Name me one person who ever said the Iranians aren’t a highly intelligent crew.
Verity, I think you are missing the point of the thread. It has been said that peoples become Muslim because they are genetically defective. I have said that the Iranians are not genetically defective and so have not become Muslim because of their weak genes.
EC 9:44. Agree. Totally.
EC – I believe Alex Salmond is Jewish and nothing to do with Celtic DNA.
James 102 – At the time, the villagers thought mo’ was receiving messages from God. Some scribe took down his meanderings.
I wish we had an account from the time of what the locals thought of mohammad. I’m sure they revered him as getting messages from allah, but I wonder what they thought of him personally. I mean, was he fun at a party?
What evidence do you have for Salmond being Jewish?
Re Sally Bercow … from today’s Daily Mail … “Now today finally deleted her Twitter account – after revealing she had her ‘a**-whipped’ by her lawyer and husband over her latest legal blunder.”
Who could have failed to predict that she would employ the Americanism “ass”, thinking it cool and sassy, rather than the more literate British “arse”. On reflection, I wonder why she didn’t employ “whupped” rather than “whipped”. I suspect she does not have enough experience of the US to use their slang correctly. They always say “ass whupped” because it is ironic.
To use another Americanism … “Du-uh”.
Headline from The Mail – Foyez-Ahmed-cut-sister-laws-throat-left-bleeding-death-children’s-arms.
Surnames Khan and Ahmed.
Verity
I too find my experience of meeting cultured,humorous,intelligent Iranians with what I see on the news as a bit of a mystery. Maybe they are a self selected group? Lebanese are the same ,how can a country with such cultured people be in such a mess?
Maybe West London is not the best place to judge these things.
On your point about Mohamed I would think he was viewed in the same way the majority of people always view dangerous oddballs.
I am intrigued as to whether religious belief has an element of genetic predisposition. You could formulate an argument that it was evolutionarily advantageous as it both encourages certain behaviours that favour families and seems to lead to large families. Religion is so widespread ,virtually universally so among human societies, I can’t see what other explanation there is for it.
James102, the obvious reason for the universality of religion is that it is based on a true premise, that there is more to this world and this life than the material.
James 102 – Yes, agree about the Lebanese. Worldly, good business people, energetic and quick witted. You may be surprised to learn that a couple of generations ago, there was a movement of Lebanese to Mexico.
They came in their rope-soled sandals and their cardboard suitcases … don’t know why Mexico … perhaps Mexico was the only country in N America that would admit them at the time … and families that would have fainted at the idea of their daughter being friendly with a Lebanese man a couple of generations ago, today angle for introductions.
The best supermarket – WalMart is bigger, but doesn’t have the je ne sais quoi – in the country is Mega, started and owned by a Lebanese. It is certainly my supermarket of choice.
And the man who started TelMex, the phone company (since diluted by competition, but at the time, the only one and providing a very dependable service) was started by a Lebanese. Carlos Slim. He has since sold it for multi-squillions, but still lives in a small(ish) house … in other words, not a mansion … because he likes to be near his family and not just bump into them in a corridor.
There are many other success stories of Lebanese who came to Mexico a few generations ago. By and large, they are in the professions and own property.
So I agree with your point about the Lebanese.
Peter From Maidstone
It extends from sophisticated theologies to Aboriginal beliefs and human sacrifice. From the gods of Rome, Greece and Northern Europe to the various Christian interpretations.
I suppose man’s desire for the spiritual can also be seen in Marxism and even National socialism.
Some of us just don’t seem to be programmed for belief in the supernatural ,although if I lived in parts of the middle east I would not make that public and go along to Friday prayers with the rest.
James 102 – I think religion also springs from mankind’s enquiring mind and search for explanations of things, which is why the various sciences developed. I agree with you that mankind is also inclined towards the spiritual, and I think this is because, unlike other animals, we have a sense of wonder. Early man wondered why the moon “came out” at night, and why there were rainbows after rainstorms, etc.
I don’t see it as a matter of programming at all. If you have such a deterministic and materialisic view of things then why be either concerned or interested in the state of the world. What does it matter? It is what it is and there is nothing that can be done.
You do not have faith for a variety of reasons, but not being programmed to have faith is not one of them. Unless there is no choice and in such a case there is no point complaining about the state of the UK. The only reason for complaining is because there is a choice and because things matter because this is not all there is.
There are reports of peace loving Hamas handing out their usual from of justice today by executing in public 6 (alleged) informants.I guess H
hamas’ principle gripe is that informants allow Israel to target active terrorism and so reduce civilian casualties.
The BBC have reported it by burying it away in this;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20413625
Peter From Maidstone
Because I don’t think there is a guiding intelligence that determines the fate of galaxies and microbes does not mean I’m not interested in how society evolves. I have children who I would like to see inhabit a world better than the one we have now. This is why I can criticise policies such as mass immigration which I personally benefit from.
Was it David Aaronovich who used the expression:’ childless libertarians” in the week to describe that section of the (not exclusively)right that had little investment in the future of our society?
Verity
I would agree and the wonders never cease.
The size of the human brain (which some scientists now aver is anyway shrinking overall, using the yardstick of ancient skeletons and the achievements of civilisations of yore), means that whatever it observes, senses or imagines, is minuscule when compared to the the universe that homo sapiens sapiens has already discovered and chronicled, which itself may well be minuscule beside the yardstick of what we don’t know and probably – nay certainly – never will, because not only are ‘we’ (whatever that means) doomed in our present configuration, but so is our platform, Planet Earth and its Sun and so on ad infinitum (using our present terminology, of course). The reason the Universe is expanding is because humanity itself daily sets new parameters for it by ‘discovery’.
It is when the ‘spiritual’ propensity of human nature decides to attribute the Great Unknown to a ‘Supreme Being’ then infers that those who don’t wish to do that are somewhat inferior in their conceptual capabilities, because they don’t ‘get it’ (but laying off with the caveat that the ‘Supreme Being’ will ‘forgive’ them anyway – despite the fact that they don’t get it), that the problems begin.
For no matter whether it be Islamic jihad, which is a particularly nutty, violent and predatory mix of revenge politics, territorial and cultural acquisition, so-called religious fervour based on virginal rewards in the ‘hereafter’ and a desire to kill apostates or enslave them into Dhimmitude – or the ‘turn the other cheek’ Christianity (or any of other pacifist religions or cults which assume a superior mien, dress themselves in flowing robes and indulge in excessive ritual, to convince, it seems to me, first themselves that ‘God’ will favour them for so doing) – then with proselytising zeal or even sanctimonious example, attempt to cajole or frighten the innocent or superstitious into following their creed, thereby gaining power over them, by hierarchical dictat, on the promise of salvation and succour; they are all in the power game. So ‘caveat emptor’.
As for those that are prone to such suggestion, being programmed to such Dhimmitude by race, culture or intellectual capacity; or resistant to it by bloody minded and obtuse ‘atheism’ – it would require better studies than I have already perused, either here or elsewhere, to convince me that there is much logic in that.
I have always acknowledged the role that Judeo-Christian practices have in recent centuries played and contributed to the better aspects of our culture, without being able to swallow the main premise behind them. Moreover, I cag on the fervour of militant atheists, too, who wish to ram their own certainties down the throats of ‘believers’, or even agnostics like me, who just want the people whom we vote into government to stop taking the piss, feathering their own nests by taxing us up to the hilt in order fund, first, their own excesses and, next, their pet (and often alien) charities and leaching our sovereignty to Federalist (ultimately totalitarian) interests – and, instead, to start to secure our national borders against inimical alien incursion; to protect out indigenous citizens and allow properly regulated business to create wealth and jobs. And to tell those who don’t want to earn a crust and keep their own families but instead rely on the government extorting others to provide a living for them, to go fuck themselves!
A safety net for the sick, lame and unfortunate by all means – but for the lazy, crooked and exploitative? No way.
Then all spiritual beliefs and needs can be catered for, provided that no particular creed is allowed to dominate or dictate others who aren’t on the same wavelength. And then, as Verity so rightly avers, wonders will never cease.
But whoever or whatever is responsible (or to blame) for the Sorry Scheme of Things Entire, is sadly beyond my grasp. Or, on the evidence presented so far, any here or elsewhere who insist that that they have ‘got it’.
Where’s Nick (SA) when he’s needed? How many of you remember him? What fun we all once had.
Obullshit in Burma – but with a Hillary-ous twist:
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/secretary-of-state-hillary-clinton-deep-in-thought-during-president-obamas-myanmar-speech/
And who, for once, can blame her?!
Rather amusing the number of atheists getting their knickers in a twist about the decision on women bishops. And in EU style the wrong result so there must be something wrong with the voting system. Watch this space. The agenda monkeys will have their way.
James102 (20 Nov. 14:32)
You suggest that religious belief is evolutionarily advantageous because it both encourages certain ‘behaviours’ that favour families and seems to lead to large families. That sounds very much like the religious exhortation to ‘go forth and multply’.
I tend to doubt that religious belief confers an evolutionary advantage. My own observations of life incline me to argue that going forth and multiplying results solely from instinct (i.e. genetics) – and a virtually irresistable instinct at that.
Religion certainly, in many cases, attempts to interfere in the process whether by requiring genital mutilation, or by putting a high value on celibacy or (in a somewhat contradictory fashion) prohibiting contraception.
Religion is even known to successfully take advantage of the sex instinct by persuading its male followers to believe the deranged notion that in heaven – so long as they have murdered enough infidels – they will spend their entire existence indulging themselves in sex.
Perhaps some astute businessman should design and sell an automatic, inflatable, martyrdom sex doll. It blows itself up.
Since it would appeal to the very stupid, it could be sold with a money back guarantee if not satisfied. A franchise in the Gaza Strip anyone?
“It does not take a majority to prevail … but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.”
― Samuel Adams
Herbert Thornton
Like altruism at first glance there seems no obvious evolutionary advantage yet it evolved. The thinking now is we have not considered Group advantage with less shared genes but nevertheless shared genes.
As for these martyrs and celibates as far as men are concerned we are only needed in small numbers and in our original state would have suffered severe and fatal injuries so often in the hunt that male life expectancy must have been very short indeed.
The injuries to male Neanderthal skeletons seems to suggest they both got close and personal with their prey and tended to choose rather large animals: a dangerous combination.Homo sapien males are also unlikely to have often died peaceably of old age surrounded by their grandchildren.
If you check the population figures for the Middle East you will see there is anything but a shortage of young men.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Palestinian_territories
And if you think they are rather fertile check out the larger countries in the region, particularly the number of men between 16 and 40.
There seems to be a certain confusion in one of two of the posts above between the supernatural and the spiritual. I would think that those who reject the supernatural would at the same time admit the spiritual. For those who do not, I would recommend finding somewhere quiet, lighting up a reefer, and listening to the Bach Piano Concerto No. 1 in D-Minor. Or, he might care to contemplate the building of, say, Wells Cathedral from 1175 and 1490.
Verity re- old men dressing up.
“…..yes, I think we can boil a clash of civilisations down to this.’
Yeah, I appreciate the point you are making.
As I say; Islam? No joy. No grace.
…………no old men dressing up in colourful girls clothes…….
Well-wisher
‘November 20th, 2012 – 07:33In po-faced Britain the posing grandfather in teenage girls clothing would probably have had a dawn visit from the police, the social services and a posse of fake childrens charities. And the granddaughter would have been grilled too.’
They’ed wha…they’d WHAT ?
They’d GRILL the fricking grandaughter ????!!!!
That’s insane. These people are out of control.
Yes, I did follow your argument; clearly expressed in your exchange with Herbert last week.
At the same time I was honestly ‘joining the confusion’ as I used to once suspect a ‘genetic’ predisposition to the cult. This might answer; ‘Why be attracted to something with zero discernable positive spiritual or cultural elements?’
So, I wondered if ‘genetics’ could somehow remove the element of choice from individuals of…er…less superb genetic material than others.
I hear V. saying ‘Yes. It’s a sucker cult for two time losers. Big deal.’
But that’s not what I’m getting at.
As you explain (@8:02) the basic ‘genetic’ material of different nations and empires can never explain their success, their failure, their faith or their lack of. I recognised this too and then decided my musing on ‘genetic’ Islam was just lazy thinking.*
However, we DO need am explanation for this unfortunate phenomena.
The harnessing of frustrated sexual energy created by the sexual slavery of women is a powerful dynamo within the cult. It certainly explains the aggressive warfare, the constant civil wars, the poverty, the absence of any cultural artefacts of beauty, the failure to invent anything, to industrialise etc etc etc
Yet still, rationally we should NOT be looking at a powerful global entity. We should be looking at a cult that grew, splintered, declined and fractured in the face of the outside world first, and then modernity second. This is not what we see before us however.
We all know Churchill’s famous analysis; and yet 100 years later here we are.
So what’s going on?
‘But it seems to me that it is not reasonable to consider only Islam in relation to servile ways of living.’
Agreed. Then you point out the docile nature of some contemporary Britons.
You ask about the Persians, ‘At what point did their genes change?’ Not being frivolous, at what point did ‘ours’ the Britons change?
What I mean is that we have no idea by what mechanism genes express the ‘messages’ they carry into the real lives of human beings.
We do not know how genes influence decision making in real life/real time situations. How would we know if the influence genes have on us could actually change?
All the reductive, secular machine minded scientists do is marry the presence of a gene to certain traits. As though humans were animated flesh; programmed by these genes.
It seems more sensible to me to ask if genes are not mere facilitators of decisions made at the spiritual level?
This would mean Islam is a spiritual decision that and not a cultural, economic or social phenomena.
Sorry if that seems convoluted but I DID say that I was confused.
Regs.
*ps Virtually ALL the Palestinian children I met in the Middle East years later were blonde haired. Lovely children by the way.
James102
November 20th, 2012 – 10:44John Richardson
‘There seems to be a genetic factor in all religions. Religious faith itself seems to be a product of how our brains function and when certain areas are stimulated ,say in some forms of epilepsy, it results in a religious experience.’
Does it?
Thanks for the response James102.
However I cannot agree as my own direct personal experience will not allow it.
…and speaking of Wells Cathedral (and, by implication, Chartres) and the spiritual there is of course the opposite:
“It is true that the worst phase in the double-millennial history of French architecture has been passed, that office blocks that are now erected in France sometimes have the kind of glassy elegance that might be pleasing to men with the souls of insects or other cold-blooded creatures…”
http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm/frm/126645/sec_id/126645
(Mr. Theodore Dalrymple… another possibility for an interview, Peter?)
I second Malfleur’s suggestion of an interview with Theodore Dalrymple. He is fabulously articulate and incisive.
BBC news just now (from memory): “The CoE has failed to give women the right to become bishops”.
Is this an objective summary of the CoE’s position?
Malfleur (20:11)
“For those who do not, I would recommend finding somewhere quiet, lighting up a reefer, and listening to the Bach Piano Concerto No. 1 in D-Minor. Or, he might care to contemplate the building of, say, Wells Cathedral from 1175 and 1490.”
Hmmmn. I found that an evening banquet as a guest of the RN in the Painted Hall at the Royal Hospital Greenwich, lubricated by several Horse’s Necks, after five courses with appropriate wines for each one, had the same effect on me. Very spiritual!
Never tried a spliff; that’s still illegal , ennit? – And that night half the attendees there would have nicked me on the spot had I done so. Can’t remember the wines, probably due to the Horse’s Necks. “Those were the days, my friend, I thought they’d never end …”
http://www.greenwich-guide.org.uk/assets/hall.jpg
I’d also like to thank the taxpayers of yore for their indulgence. Believe me, in the long run they got their money’s worth, both from the matelots and the other attendees. I understand things are different now:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9686319/Entire-neighbourhood-police-team-axed-for-playing-poker-and-cleaning-golf-clubs.html
As I pointed out on the PCC elections thread last week, ‘you can lead a horse to water ….’ but it takes several Horses Necks to make him spiritual (and dutiful – if not necessarily beautiful).
And talking of police, horses necks and brass-necked red headed women … Rebekka, Rebekka … Oh dear! Oh deary me, David C.
And we all know what the C stands for, don’t we? LOL.
Spirituality, human nature, religious faith, agnosticism & such have attracted a a lot of interesting comments this week so I wonder what everybody (but especially Peter fM & Frank P.) make of this. I’d never heard of either Dr. Stuart Hameroff or British physicist Sir Roger Penrose before, but they seem to be respected scientists –
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/quantum-scientists-offer-proof-soul-exists/story-fneszs56-1226507452687
Frank Sutton :04 …. Note that the CoE “has failed to give women etc.”
That emotive word “failed”.
Are people still so naive that they won’t catch this old trick?
Verity: 01.42. Exactly – sticks out like a sore thumbs-down!
Frank P @ 01.10
“…ennit?”
Not in Colorado, and though their cathedrals are not up to much they do I believe have quite good CDs and DVD players. In Wells, it seems from your link to the DT as though the police might be “otherwise engaged” to spot anyone smoking outside the West Front. The greatest thing about Wells though in my opinion is the inverted arches in the nave. They knocked me flat without benefit of enhancers and reminded me of the structure of Hardy’s novel, Jude the Obscure – though I can’t remember why – I shall have to re-read it. The Cathedral seems to inspire people in different ways:
http://www.trenddelacreme.com/2009/02/gaultiers-sacred-script.html
I do hope the services haven’t gone all happy-clappy. It will be one of the first places I will visit when I get back.
Greenwich is somewhere I have never been to – now that we no longer have a navy worthy of it, may be I can get to visit that lovely and imposing Hall.
I hope neither building becomes a mosque any time soon…
(Couldn’t get into the DT link to read the details beyond the headlines because of the new pay wall. The headlines brought to mind my old American friend in Manhattan replying when I asked what the screeching fire engine sirens were all about “Oh, they’re on their way to a card game”.)
Herbert Thornton 01.19. Roger Penrose is the author The Emperor’s New Mind, in which he offers a mathematically impenetrable (to me at any rate) argument against the notion that artificial intelligence can match human consciousness – a lesson in the Bloomin’ Obvious, perhaps, and I’m agnostic as to his quantum theory of souls, which you link to. But I find it interesting that the very materialistic business of physical science conjures with ever more ethereal – even spiritual – notions as it seeks to understand the nature of existence.
Off course, this impression could be due to my general ignorance of science.
Herbert Thornton
Interesting. There seems to be a certain alarm among some of the commentators on that thread that the soul might be proved to exist.
Certainly, one could argue that once he had written his Piano Concerto No. 1 in D-Minor, Bach proved that it had in some sense always existed and always would exist. As that music is, again one might say, a structure for drawing out of all kinds of different people what is already inside them,and that “what” is palpably spiritual in that it cannot be seen, or weighed, or touched…
Help me out guys – where am I going with this?!
Re genetics & inherited habits customs and values.
I though this might help my earlier fumblings in attempting to explain why ‘genetics’ does not explain (or explain away) any human social constructs.
True enough. However, some human social and cultural constructs seem clearly to suggest some other form of generational transference other than simple education or indoctrination.
“The formation of habits depends on a process called morphic resonance. Similar patterns of activity resonate across space and time with subsequent patterns. This hypothesis applies to all self-organising systems, including atoms, molecules, crystals, cells, plants, animals and animal societies. All draw upon a collective memory and in turn contribute to it. A growing crystal of copper sulphate, for example, is in resonance with countless previous crystals of copper sulphate, and follows the same habits of crystal organisation, the same lattice structure. A growing oak seedling follows the habits of growth and development of previous oaks. When an orb-web spider starts spinning its web, it follows the habits of countless ancestors, resonating across space and time. The more people who learn a new skill, such as snowboarding, the easier will it be for others to learn it because of morphic resonance from previous snowboarders.”
[Snowboarding.Yes. I think we are all aware of the fact monkeys find tasks easier to complete when other monkeys far away, have been trained have been trained to complete said task. Though I have no information on snowboarding monkeys, for example; the silence of mainstream science is significant. They cannot attribute this to ‘genetics’ ie breeding ie evolution. So they ignore it.]
There is far more to morphic resonance than this, but I’m not the one to explain, as I have to admit I don’t understand all of its many aspects. Sheldrake believes that memories are not stored in the brain but somewhere outside of it; the brain recalls them not as a hard drive does,…..
Apparently a double Nobel in neuroscience said ‘If there is one thing we now know about the mind, it is that it is not located in the brain’.
Rupert Sheldrake
Herbert Thornton (01:19).
You must be familiar with Will and Ariel Durant. When in the 1920s Will wrote ‘The Story of Philosophy’ he was denounced by philosophers for ‘popularising’ philosophy (in other words telling the story in a readable way and undercutting their ‘edge’) so he then set out to write ‘The Story of Civilisation’ to piss them off even more and succeeded in both quests with thirteen volumes by that name – thoroughly recommended.
I see much of the Durants’ work in the TV series of Kenneth Clark, Simon Schama and David Starkey (which would piss them off if they were to read this -extremely unlikely, of course).
Over the years I’ve collected almost all of the Durants’ work; Will’s wicked sense of humour appeals to me, as does the attention to detail and the narrative line which takes you hither and thither in interesting ways. Alexander Boot would probably not like this either, but his blog writing reminds me of Durant and both echo Voltaire’s humour; Alexander obviously has more sense of the spiritual than either of my other two heroes, though all three are equally empirical (and often imperious).
I also recommend, in answer to your question, one of the Durants’ later works, ‘The Lessons of History’ (Simon and Schuster 1968), in particular Chapters III (Biology and History);, IV (Race and History) and V (Character and History) – if you haven’t the time to read it all. The content of those three chapters resounded like the clap of doom when I first read them, as they encapsulate most of what I have discovered during my interface with others of our species on earth over almost eight decades. Will Durant expresses it for more cogently and humorously than I ever could (I think Will was the author and Ariel the researcher, but the collaboration was long, faithful and fruitful, so who knows?).
The last line of Chapter III sums it up neatly (just to whet your appetite): “There is no humorist like history.”
Almost as neatly as Ambrose Bierce’s definition of politics: “The conduct of public affairs for private advantage”.
Sorry that should end:-
“……..The more people who learn a new skill, such as snowboarding, the easier will it be for others to learn it because of morphic resonance from previous snowboarders.”
Rupert Sheldrake
[Snowboarding.Yes. I think we are all aware of the fact monkeys find tasks easier to complete when other monkeys far away, have been trained have been trained to complete said task. Though I have no information on snowboarding monkeys, for example; the silence of mainstream science is significant. They cannot attribute this to ‘genetics’ ie breeding ie evolution. So they ignore it.]
‘There is far more to morphic resonance than this, but I’m not the one to explain, as I have to admit I don’t understand all of its many aspects. Sheldrake believes that memories are not stored in the brain but somewhere outside of it; the brain recalls them not as a hard drive does,…….’
Apparently a double Nobel in neuroscience said ‘If there is one thing we now know about the mind, it is that it is not located in the brain’.
Herbert Thornton re-Science & the soul.
Years ago experiments were conducted with tennis players. Their muscles and brains were wired during games.
In short, the time did not exist for them to actually ‘see’ the ball, decide what to to, for the brain to send the necessary ‘signal’ to the muscles and for the muscles to then respond. There was not enough time.
Something other than a physical competition was afoot.
This will be instinctively obvious to anyone who has become absorbed watching a great match. We are not looking at a physical competition at all. e are actually looking at something else and this ‘something else’ is what all sports fans are attracted to marvel at, though many may not know or care.
Science will again and again reveal these obvious secrets. Then science will again and again totally ignore all of the implications.
Regs.
…oh…these days tennis players call this state ‘in the zone’. They often don’t remember making important decisions at vital moments.
Funny that because Brittnay Spears had an album out also called ‘In The Zone’. Apparently she canot remember anything at all between about 2002 and 2005.
Huuum.
I second Malfleur’s suggestion of an interview with Theodore Dalrymple. He is fabulously articulate and incisive.
It might be possible to arrange an interview with Mr. Dalyrymple since I have contacts who have contacts. But what would people want to ask of him?
The soul leaves the body after death – of that I am certain. And it is a physical passing in the sense that the body is afterwards “empty”. I know of one case where a young infantry officer, not at all religious or spiritual and grounded in the practical, had the experience of the soul of a dying soldier passing through him. He said he felt it as a physical experience as he stooped over the other man and instinctively knew at once what had just happened.
Please forgive me for posting quotes I see, but there are many which are very suitable for our times. Some of them could be written especially for our present circumstances.
Saint Anthony – A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him, saying, “You are mad; you are not like us.”
Herbert Thornton @01:19
Penrose is about as well known as Hawking.
As for his theory, nobody, in any meaningful way, has ever come back from the dead so we’ll never know until it is our turn.
Here’s a primer on microtubules:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK9932/
The “turf wars” that erupt from time to time between different disciplines can provide a great deal entertainment. Here’s one that erupted in the mid 90’s between a couple of physicists(Sokal and Bricmont) and various French “social scientists”. Great fun!
Here we are, as if further proof were actually required that the French are full of bollocks:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Intellectual-Impostures-Jean-Bricmont/dp/1861976313
As Alan Sokal said in an interview at the time, “Anyone who thinks that the law of gravity is merely a “social narrative or construct is welcome to leave my 12th floor office by the window.”
Peter from Maidstone @ 08.17
Thinking laterally: how about a conversation between Alexander Boot and Theodore Dalrymple? We would then see what questions (and answers) they had for each other.
I realize that practicalities may forbid this, not least because Mr. Dalrymple lives in France and Mr. Boot in England.
Unless we can find a way of funding something like this, they should probably retain copyright to any product and then let them market it once it has been published here – or concurrently. Needs some thought.
The main question though, as always, is “what is to be done?”.
Theodore Dalrymple lives in Shropshire much of the time. That is possible as a drive, but quite a long one from here, I’d want to stay over somewhere probably. So I’ll start with an email and see where I get with the possibility of asking some questions that way.
Malfleur/Peter/Verity.
As far as I know Dr Anthony Daniels (aka Theodore Dalrymple) has so far eschewed the lure of public presentations on camera, concentrating instead on his voluminous and varied literary output; he did indeed move to France while he was still writing his whimsical column for the Spectator in the days when it was worth buying. But Alexander Boot also has a home in France and, I suspect, is a friend of Dr Daniels.
Given his literary output in both Europe and America, I would think that Dr Daniels has to tailor his public engagements according to his agent’s requirements and no doubt his time is precious, but it’s worth a try. Did you ever follow up the contact with David Starkey, Peter?
As the right leaning element of political philosophy is generally under-represented by the media, my dream would be to convene a weekend seminar at the lefty-inspired Millennium Dome and hire a bevy of speakers which would include Melanie Phillips, Anthony Daniels, Mark Steyn, Alexander Boot, Roger Scruton, David Starkey, Simon Heffer and Peter Hitchens. Imagine that lot, untrammelled, with an audience packed with with right thinking questioners and without the interruptions of a Dimblebore? Trouble is at £500 a head to attend, I doubt even a full house would meet their fees.
Btw – Andy Car Park! Thanks once again for the Boot introduction; it was indeed a gift that goes on giving and let’s be ‘aving a few more pearls of your own wisdom; I need a good larft and what with the likes of Austin Barry and yourself a bit thin on the ground hereabouts recently, the stimulation of the chuckle-muscles has diminished somewhat – a pity, because it was better medicine than my quacks can manage to date. Selfish of me, I know, but indulge the old codger occasionally when you have a minute. We do tend to get a bit sirrrrious just lately when you’re not around!
I am told by a friend of Mr. Dalrymple that he lives in Shropshire, and he is indeed listed there. I am sure that he also has a house in France.
I never got a response from Mr.Starkey. I did try. I also sent a missive into the void in the director of Lord Black.
The list of speakers you have proposed is exciting. Nothing is impossible. But it is difficult to do it all on your own.
The other thing which occurs to me is that if you posed the question to any of those illustrious scribes “What is to be done?” as Malfleur had done above, they would probably answer, “RTFM”. As with the Bible, which contains the answers for some, so do their writings.
When I once asked, in the cups, that very question of an old journalist pal of mine of similar years, who lives in Lower Manhattan, just after his flat had been filled with the dust, death and destruction of 9/11, he said, “Just lets Keep breathing and get your revenge on the bastards by living well.” Seems like good advice, ‘cos basically that’s about all we can do. According to Peter, God will do the rest – and in my creed, death solves all problems. As for my soul ….. God help you all if it passes through you when it leaves me (vide Well-wisher (08:30). I doubt there is a purgative that would move you so comprehensively if it were to happen.
Curiously, I met Anthony Daniels on the SS. Bremen on its voyage from Southampton to New York in the autumn of 1967 (lots of Germans in lederhosen – no French ship available at the time I needed to travel). He will not remember me, but we shared a table in the dining room and the impression which his then wife left on me is what mainly remains to me of that tenuous encounter.
I am not sure that all the illustrious scribes do know what to do. I wonder if many of them are philosophers rather than activists, as Mr. Boot says of himself. But they are certainly prophets. They certainly can see how we ended up here, though they do not agree on all points.
What we do next? I have not yet found a coherent plan. But maybe bringing them together would be a start.
I might well start writing around to see how much it would cost. The O2 is out of the question. But Westminster Central Hall is not out of the question. Would it be reasonable to look for 450 attendees or 2200? It is only a matter of organisation. Everything is possible. If this will make a difference then it should be done.
Peter @ 8.51
Your quote nicely sums up the ‘wisdom’ of our age. The bulk of the political class, MSM and state apparatchiks are far happier being in a failing consensus (even knowing they are failing) than taking a deep breath, girding their loins and saying “NO!”
EC (09:40)
Great links – thanks.
PfromM – Theodore Dalrymple’s house in France, last I knew, was in the Langedoc, in Pezenas. Of course, he may have moved since then.
Does anybody know how successful are the soirees with guest speakers, organised by the Spectator ? They seem to do them quite frequently. Has anyone here ever attended one and if so were they worth the candle?
Throughout the finals years of my bluebottle stint I used to attend a yearly seminar on Organised Crime at Jesus College Cambridge attended by official experts from all around the globe; it was organised by the Dean – Professor. Barry Ryder, as a commercial exercise, during the college autumn holiday period, but it was mainly a networking get-together to exchange ideas, spookery wheezes, coppering m.o. and commercial ‘security’ know-how. I’m also sure many villains and media bods (sometimes a combination of both) infiltrated to find out how the enemy (as far as they were concerned) were organising themselves.
Later, when I retired, and after a couple more career mutations, with a colleague I helped to organise a similar annual seminar there, in the spring break, of NHS and Private Health Security buffs; once again with speakers and attendees from around the globe, to exchange and promote ideas. It was viable from the College’s p.o.v. and certainly worked professionally for us.
Accommodation was available for those that required it and the fees were modest; but the speakers were mainly voluntary and only paid travel expenses.
Just mention this as the germ of an idea; in these straitened times colleges are looking to make a buck extra here and there with extra-curricular activities.
But in each of those cases funds were usually available from the employers of the attendees. It is difficult to know how a political get-together of paying punters would attract enough to make it viable – desirable though it may be.
Don’t know what Barry Ryder is doing these days – probably retired to an exotic location on the proceeds.
Sadly my age and health precludes active involvement and I suspect that applies to most of the inhabitants of this cell of the cybersphere. But we can dream, can’t we?
Perhaps we should fly the idea past Harvey Goldsmith:
http://www.edge.uk.com/HarveyGoldsmith.aspx
He has an eye for the main chance and knows how to organise a gig. In all seriousness, there is a strong desire for a counter-counter-revolution abroad at the moment, since the Manchurian Candidate had a second stint secured for him.
It’s a mad, mad, mad, mad whirrrrled. Not only that, but Chelksi’s manager was sacked today. Ruthless bastard, that Ruski oligarch. Cue Alex Boot.
And speaking of Mr Boot, off you all go to his link and read his latest dig at the outgoing Archie Cuntsbury – and the strident wimmin who are out in force today as the cat has been put among their pigeons in the coven. What happened to his s.o.h. when you met him, Peter? Did you insist that he curb his enthusiasm in that regard?
[Now I’m off – to return the wooden spoon to the memsahib].
Verity, I am sure he has a house in France, but he lives in Shropshire.
Mr Theodore Dalrymple has emailed me and said that he will be delighted to answer our questions. So do please either post serious, well thought out questions for him here or email me at peter@coffeehousewall.co.uk
Frank P, what does s.o.h. mean?
Peter (15:46)
Hahahahahahahaha.
Touché
Frank P, I am being serious. I don’t know!!!! The list of abbreviations I consulted had 65 entries for these letters!
PfM: Obviously you’ve never advertised your charms in a lonely hearts column!
Peter
And I was trying to groom you into a detectivehood! We both fail.
Andrew C McCarthy keeps up the pressure on the Whited Sepulchre:
http://pjmedia.com/andrewmccarthy/2012/11/20/as-the-benghazi-plot-thickens-congress-must-not-get-sidetracked/?singlepage=true
Another campaign doomed to failure I fear. The bastards are now firmly in charge and now JDGAF.
And Ron Radosh, allegedly a conservative, appears to advocate Dhimmitude in an effort to win the next election; a familiar pattern which Cameron has already woven here. Oh boy! Are the bastards winning?
Ahhhhhhh! OK. I get it.
No. Mr. Boot is always amusing company. I did say that I thought he was more positive about the new AoC than I was. Perhaps he was trying to show I was wrong!
Forgot to post the Radosh link:
http://pjmedia.com/andrewmccarthy/2012/11/20/as-the-benghazi-plot-thickens-congress-must-not-get-sidetracked/?singlepage=true
Here’s another for the litany of deceptive words and phrases, as used just now by our own dear PM, CMD: “Get with programme…”
In this instance he’s chiding the CoE for not going for Women Bishops. Whether you’re pro or anti women bishops, you might well ask “what programme”?
I think we know what the programme is. And I find myself rather offended by the AoC insinuating that Catholic and Orthodox communities who are not planning on having women priests or bishops any time soon are out of step with modern society. Or rather I am encouraged that he has realised that we are out of step with the kingdom of this world.
Another topic, related perhaps to the question of whether we have souls, is whether the Devil really exists.
Does this incline anybody to believe that he does? –
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/11/20/brazen-faking-images-reveals-hamas-desperation/
“Spectator Parliamentarian Awards: Boris versus Gove, round one
By Steerpike.
Years from now, political historians may regard 2012’s Spectator Parliamentarian of the Year Awards as the first round of Boris Johnson versus Michael Gove in the race to be Tory leader.”
I just lost the will to live.
On the home front, a domestic tragedy was played out today, when a week-old baby was killed by the grandparent’s Jack Russel dog. Without discussing why a baby was left unattended in the presence of a dog, when it is known pets can become jealous of newcomers, I would like to ask posters what they think about the dog being destroyed. Although an animal lover, I think that this was the only and the right decision, but I ask why an animal, that has all the instincts (often buried over centuries) of a wild creature, should receive the death penalty, yet a humanbeing is not. Mankind is supposed to be of a higher level than the animals, and believers in most religions accept that he is the possesser of a soul, and has freewill to do good or evil. Surely such a ‘superior’ being should receive the deatg sentence when he/she wilfully puts put the life of a fellow human?
Before you all succumb to either the crowd of the pseudo-liberal nutters determined to destroy it all, or as Frank lose the will to live, have a look at this. Not all is yet lost, there seems a glimmer of hope in all the despair.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/rEM4NKXK-iA?feature=player_detailpage
Anne, although I am formally in favour of the death penalty, and do not believe it to be at all incompatible with the Christian Faith, I do not have any confidence at all in any of those who might be applying it in our present situation. Therefore I would rather it not be available since it would certainly be misused.
Herbert @ 18.56
There’s certainly much malevolence abroad which would suggest he may.
Try this for more famous fakery
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3geiT77mlY4&feature=fvwrel
Or just Google ‘Pallywood’ for more documented fakery that the BBC (for e.g) and the loathsome dark angel Jeremy Bowen are happy to broadcast or ignore.
Not so much Balen reports as Baleful
Peter from Maidstone
November 21st, 2012 – 20:31
Yes, Peter
You are correct. When I think of our mainly criminally insane judiciary, I tremble to think of any of them donning the black cap!
PfM: “Get with the program”… “out of step with” – two insidious ways of implying that those who don’t share your policies are slack, backward, dragging their feet, deficient in common sense and realism.
Personally, I’m proud to be out of step, and would want nothing to do with any program.
Dr. Bill Warner, whose work we looked at a little earlier in the year, gives as the reason for the collapse of the classical empire under the onslaught of islam the weakening of the empire by a long series of wars with Persia followed by the loss of a third of its population in the Black Plague and the collapse of two-thirds of its economy.
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2012/09/why-we-are-afraid-1400-year-secret.html
No scope there for genetic causes.
At last, some in Israel are – it seems to me – recognising the utter futility of making any so-called cease fire agreement between Israel and the inhabitants of the Gaza Strip.
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=292466
I think that situation is a mere microcosm of what western Europeans are allowing to develop in their own countries.
Western Europe – Britain included – is on course to having its own, home grown versions of the Gaza Strip.
How can it be otherwise?
Hamas and any ceasefire – “It’s déjà vu all over again”.
Yesterday’s “agreement” is a complete PR on the part of Hamas. The “ceasefire” most likely only signifies that they’ve temporarily run out of rockets or hiding places to launch them from. Absolutely nothing has changed. Hamas is still constitutionally committed to the destruction of Israel and genocide.
The BBC is no doubt still misreporting the situation.
http://www.melaniephillips.com/a-most-uneasy-truce
From the BBC:
“David Cameron is set to press for a minimum real-terms freeze in the EU’s budget as European leaders gather ahead of a crunch summit to determine its spending between 2014 and 2020.”
He swaggers in, he rolls over and they tickle his tummy?
“It’s déjà vu all over again”.
@07:51 should read “PR sham”
Thank you Baron for the Socratic Club link. Cameron and the Tories are utterly incapable of crafting those simple but powerful narratives. The public narrative in Britain appears to be crafted wholly by the people in the wagon and on their behalf. The people pulling the wagon are silent – or silenced – and no-one speaks for them.
Morally inverted, the truth twisted so much that any attempt to express it is shouted down and condemned. The cheerleaders of that repugnant theatre are themselves mostly fabulously wealthy and on the left, hiding behind a shield of fake morality and absolutely dragging the country down the toilet.
1978:-
http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/politics-government/milton-friedman-on-big-business-and-big-government
They’ve had 34 years now travelling down the very path he warns against. The big business, lobbying, quango and fake charity pressure groups are suffocating liberty and the individual here by promoting the coercion described.
Looking at this map one wonders how Labour manage to win General Elections but then one realises there is no English parliament.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9681461/Police-commissioner-election-live-results-map.html
Malfleur
November 22nd, 2012 – 01:21
Losing a third of your population has genetic consequences.
Looking at that DT PCC map it’s depressing to see how many names that I recognise – of recycled and/or failed politicians. Gravy boatmen!
Alinski’s Rule 5 juxtaposed; been doing that for half a long lifetime; doesn’t seem to be as effective as it was for the enemy, though. Just look who won the US election, again! Maybe we should try harder?
http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/11/conservatives_using_alinskys_rule_number_5.html
James 102 @ 1.31
I don’t know what you mean in the context I gave.
Glenn Beck’s message for Israel – and mine.
http://www.israpundit.com/archives/50899
Malfleur (01:21)
Thanks for the reprise of the Bill Warner lecture (there are 8 others on You Tube incidentally – all worth the candle). I always get re-fired when watching them.
Now – though I repeat ad nauseum that the Left/Islamic Jihad unholy conspiracy is based on the fact that each of those elements believes that once The West has been dhimmified the other will prevail, having watched Warner proclaiming again I can understand why Islam believes it. But why does The Left? History states otherwise, doesn’t it?
Warner’s lectures should be part of the national curriculum of primary schools. Trying getting THAT on the statute books Mr Gove!
Urge everybody to disseminate the link widely again. The ancient pattern of jihad emerges from our MSM headlines everyday; trouble is, the analyses below the headlines state the opposite. Overwhelming and relentless stupidity seems to be the default position of Western education. I don’t think it’s the genes – it is the inherent proclivity of fear and cowardice inculcated over the years; the passive element of modern Christianity seems to have contributed to – and even nurtured – that.
As an agnostic, perhaps I shouldn’t be saying this, but the hymn that I sang lustily from my childhood Methodist pew still resounds in my mind: “Onward Christian Soldiers!” Who first sounded the retreat? Whoever – it has been a rout!
The latest wheeze of pussifying the CoE Priesthood is just part of the body politic of the church twitching in its death throes. Much as I doubt the premises of all religions, I deplore the destruction of those parts of our civilisation that depend upon the positive practical tenets of Judea-Christian teaching – those commandments that are based on peaceful co-existence, mano a mano, rather than on iconic superstition and fear. That is where the agony of my own confusion springs from. I have no answers – only only plenty of apparently unanswerable questions. (Only those with logical answers need apply).
The fact that in this country it is now proscribed by law to utter the content of Bill Warner’s lecture is the most horrifying development in legislation passed in my lifetime. That and the fact that it’s now apparently illegal to say that buggery is an an abominable act. (My police training manual circa 1954 averred that it was an abominable CRIME).
We are being well and truly buggered both metaphorically and literally by our own ‘elected’ representatives and legislators. Welcome to Dhimmitude. Bend over folks! (Not you girls – get back in the tent until we call you).
Peter fM
here’s an idea for expanding the number of followers of your blog, boosting the number of hits for it: you write to people like this chap Boot, or Melanie Phillips, Anthony Daniels, Mark Steyn, Alexander Boot, Roger Scruton, David Starkey, Simon Heffer and Peter Hitchens (they’re the ones you wanted to get for the seminar), or others like the two guys on the Socratic club clip, or one or more on the American thinker site, or to anyone else you or others may think they qualify, ask them nicely to answer one question in 250 words, tell them you will use it as the header of your blog under the heading ‘250 words on bla,bla from ……. (or 500 words or whatever you think is enough to develop an idea, but the key thing is they must stick to the number of words, it’s important, that’s your catch), it shouldn’t be that hard for them (look at ‘The Corner’ as an example), it should broaden their exposure to the blogging world, too, and you should remind them of it in the approach. You flag it with all those names that agreed to furnish you such pieces, one of us can let it slip at any of the Spectator’s blogs and voila, your business expands.
Baron’s saying it because he reckons you have to build the base first before you tackle anything as big as the organisation of a seminar, and this approach may be quite cost effective, just imagine Mark Steyn’s contribution, a mention of it on any of the Spectator’s blogs, that will be a blow to those who kicked you, Frank, others from heir site. You may get the brains of this site Frank, Malfleur, Well wisher, Verity, Austin, Herbert, Frank S, Haxham, Anne, the others to offer, pontificate on the subjects.
Well wisher @ 8.24: it didn’t hit Baron the same way as it did you, but you’re absolutely right, we do lack people who could come up with a simple yarn, most probably because the political tossers don’t have to try, even if they had the ability.
Frank P @ 14.01
You’ve come across Pacal’s gambit (gamble), where he suggests it’s prudent to believe in God, have you?
Believing in God is hardly enough. The Devil believes in God. Pascal was not as clever as he thought!
Baron (14:16)
If you had met as many lying bastards as I have that can look you in the eye and deny or aver, in the face of overwhelming evidence known to each of us, the opposite to what they know full well to be true, then like me, you would be very chary of the word ‘believe’. As for prudence? You don’t mean that particularly obnoxious and late great-aunt on my mother’s side, do you? I didn’t realise you had met her.
Don’t go much on Pascal, either, though a Canadian friend keeps forwarding quotations from his books to encourage me to read him more intently. Trouble is, he and I share Gallic blood, something for which I’ve never been able to forgive my great-great-great-grandfather. But then as Voltaire regularly keeps me amused, I suppose I’m displaying my confusion again. That’s the problem with the dhimmified descendants of Huguenots.
So much to learn, so little time …
I have to say, though, that I agree with M. Pascal’s assertion that:
“Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.” Who could argue with that?
But then, we must define ‘religion’ I suppose. It doesn’t mean the same thing to everyone, does it? Back to Socrates again – “Define your Terms!”
Serves he poorly educate d Slav right to challenge the wise, tell you though what so unsettles in the current times, it is that we cannot live without believing, none of us, if we don’t believe in Him, it’s somebody or something else like the messiah, the AGW, the infallibility of science, the certitude of one’s judgment and stuff.
Baron reckons it’s preferable for the unwashed to believe in something that’s by and large harmless like Christianity in its reformed state than something that hasn’t been tested in the lab of time. you know, evil you know better than one you don’t?
Also, who said it that believing in God doesn’t prevent one from sinning, merely from enjoying it? Perfect for the barbarian in his last few years of existence.
Baron
Tell you what, me noble old mukka, if I arrive at the Pearly Gates before you, I’ll hang about and wait for you – and vice versa? Perhaps we can work out a spiel to talk our way through together. Now if our Peter from Maidstone turns out to be the gatekeeper – we’re both fucked I’m afraid, but at least we’ve been in the company of the boss of the other show and we know what to say down there to get welcomed with open arms, don’t we?
Now you know why I augur Oblivion. Either of the other alternatives would lead to bad company and a continuance of the trials and tribulations of this mortal coil. Bugger that! And you know what I think about buggery.
Does Fat Pang ever take his hands out of his pockets, these days? We all know what he is, but he doesn’t have to demonstrate it every time he appears on TV with a deft display of pocket billiards.
Played safe with his pick, hasn’t he? Lord Birkenhead: lovey and opera buff. Blerrrdy Hades! Really got the punters in mind, haven’t they?
He commissioned that lefty extravaganza that opened the Olympics, too. Obviously Pang is getting all his ducks in a row – business as usual. The self congratulatory guff that spewed from the BBC’s front men today was a joy to behold. I’ll bet Jeremy Bowen climaxed – what with that and Hamas’s and the MB’s ‘successes’ in the ‘negotiations’. Orla Guerin will be back on her patch again soon no doubt. I wonder if either Pang or Birkenhead have ever read the ‘Biased BBC’ blog? Apparently the BBC’s ‘little glitch’ only started ‘a coupla months ago’. Ostrich (occasionally) – it seems they could teach you a thing or two burying heads in the sand.
I thought the following worth quoting here from a comment on the Breitbart thread at http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/11/22/For-Fourth-Straight-Year-Obama-Thanksgiving-Message-God
Apart from the modesty, beauty, and restraint of the language, it is good to hear a politician invoke the duties of the people:
George Washington’s 1789 Thanksgiving Proclamation
Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor; and Whereas both Houses of Congress have, by their joint committee, requested me to “recommend to the people of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness:”
Now, therefore, I do recommend and assign Thursday, the 26th day of November next, to be devoted by the people of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being who is the beneficent author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be; that we may then all unite in rendering unto Him our sincere and humble thanks for His kind care and protection of the people of this country previous to their becoming a nation; for the signal and manifold mercies and the favorable interpositions of His providence in the course and conclusion of the late war; for the great degree of tranquility, union, and plenty which we have since enjoyed; for the peaceable and rational manner in which we have been enable to establish constitutions of government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national one now lately instituted for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed, and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge; and, in general, for all the great and various favors which He has been pleased to confer upon us.
And also that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations and beseech Him to pardon our national and other transgressions; to enable us all, whether in public or private stations, to perform our several and relative duties properly and punctually; to render our National Government a blessing to all the people by constantly being a Government of wise, just, and constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and obeyed; to protect and guide all sovereigns and nations (especially such as have shown kindness to us), and to bless them with good governments, peace, and concord; to promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and virtue, and the increase of science among them and us; and, generally to grant unto all mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as He alone knows to be best.
Given under my hand, at the city of New York, the 3d day of October, A.D. 1789.
*****
Perhaps one question for our interviewees should be: what are the duties of the people?
Thanks David. 🙂
Frank P – 22nd, Nov @ 14:01
Your reference to buggery’s metamorphosis from an abomination into respectability reminds me of a spoof of the last verse of the Canadian National anthem that I composed a good many years ago – in the time of Pierre Trudeau I think –
Original –
God bless this land,
Glorious and free,
O Canada we stand on guard for Thee,
O Canada we stand on guard for Thee.
Spoof –
God help us all,
Where can we flee?
Pederasty’s going to be com-pul-sor-ee,
Pederasty’s going to be COM PUL SO REE….
Is the BBC in the forefront of effecting this change too?
Herbert T (19:24)
Well; in an organisation where the very weird Jimmy Savile was considered ‘straight’ (and they’re savaging HIM after his death) one might be forgiven for assuming that they saw this coming and quickly promoted the changes in the Sexual Offences Act, to legitimise everything except heterosexual excesses. But let’s wait and see – Birkenhead has a wife and two kids; maybe he will start to encourage the promotion of a few other heterosexuals; they’re a bit thin on the ground in that set-up.
Once again today I found myself reluctant agreeing again with that Leftie crone Margaret Hodge, when Entwhistles paymaster admitted to her, during the parliamentary committee hearing today, that he had muttered to himself as he agreed to a £450k pay-off, “Why am I paying this man £450,000?” To which Hodge retorted, “You mean ‘why are the licence fee payers paying him £450.000’, don’t you?” I didn’t notice whether or not he blushed, as the camera cut away. I suspect he didn’t. They have no shame.
Enjoyed the paraphrased anthem btw. Very good.
Herbert Thornton 22nd, – 19:34
The Canadians have a bit of a habit of that…a lo-ong time ago, one of our neighbours found himself saddled with his son and family, who’d just returned from working in Canada. The son was my age (13, since you ask) and sang us his Canadian friends’ version of an earlier national anthem,
God shave our gracious queen,
Shave her with Gilette’s Brylcreem…
Funny lot, Canadians.
Any Americans interrupting their Thanksgiving celebrations to catch up with the craic here – hope you had a good one and dispensed goodwill, good victuals and a glass or two of cheer among your family and friends. Having been the recipient of such wonderful hospitality over there in my travels, I know just how enjoyable it can be. It almost convinced me that …. well, you know what I mean.
Uh-oo! Just as we expected:
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Morsi-Egypt-dictatorial-powers/2012/11/22/id/465109?s=al&promo_code=10DB9-1
No thanks-giving on that score, then? What idiots are the politicians implementing our foreign policy. Or, as some believe, what deliberate traitors.
Riposte from Noa over on Trolltopia:
telemachus Baron • 9 hours ago
See above response to Vulture
*
You are guilty of right wing knee-jerkism
*
Hall is a true scouser and will do right by his roots
0 •Reply•Share ›
Noa telemachus • 8 hours ago
Better be prepared to check the tyres in the BBC executive car park then.
Wonderful! Scousaphilia at its very worst, countered by Scousaphobia at its very best.
Ostrich (occasionally)
“Gilette’s Brylcreem”? shomething wrong here shurely (in addition to the scansion)?
Brylcreem was (is?) a pomade – and there’s a word I haven’t used in a few decades, and can’t even remember if its ‘ard or aid. My Dad used it, but only on the hair on his head, not to shave with – so far as the family archives reveal.
I just HAD to look it up in Wikipedia, where I also found:
” Bryl-creem, a little dab’ll do ya,
Use more, only if you dare,
But watch out,
The gals will all pursue ya,—
They’ll love to put their fingers through your hair.
Bryl-creem, a little dab’ll do ya,
Bryl-creem, you’ll look so debonair.
Bryl-creem, the gals will all pursue ya,
They’ll love to RUN their fingers through your hair.
When the dry look became popular, the last line was changed to, “They’ll love the natural look it gives your hair.”
I wanted to use it myself when young; but I had fine hair, so it made me look like a, well, instead of making me look like this
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_SEiOaUSXBbg/S_tDVrFCR9I/AAAAAAAABCo/DYf7W-8lze8/s400/Picture+4.png
it made me look like this:
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42937000/jpg/_42937095_polecat.jpg
Andrew Neil got really arsey tonight with Anne Atkins during the women bishops debate. Neil at his nastiest and imho (as a neutral – obviously) he lost the debate.
The Left trying to impose pc on the Anglican Church is an unedifying spectacle. I’d like to see Neil debate Alexander Boot on the same subject:
http://alexanderboot.com/content/effrontery-times-only-matched-its-ignorance
He shreds the Times.
Malfleur (02:12)
Dennis Compton disgraced himself by promoting it. And the RAF were known as ‘The Brylcreem Boys’ in my youth – by the Army – but the matelots were fond of it too, though I understand that some of them used it for purposes other than hair gel. Remember antimacassars?
Perhaps they are now in fashion again – my grandchildren plaster their hair with some sort of lubricant these days – looks like axle grease – another case of déjà vu all over again, EC?
Frank P
For me as a boy, Denis Compton was the non-pareil. It seemed only appropriate that his gleaming hair should grace Brylcreem ads. I did not hear a straw of scandal stirred, but perhaps I was too young.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/castlekay/3013597544/lightbox/
I could find no mention of any disgrace in Wikipedia either, though if I searched longer online no doubt there would be something; but I was happy to have my hero untainted. Wikipedia does offer these two anecdotes which I hadn’t heard:
1. ‘Compton’s absent-mindedness was legendary. Colin Cowdrey writes that Compton turned up for the Old Trafford Test of 1955 against South Africa without his kitbag. Undaunted, he sauntered into the museum and, borrowing an antique bat off the display, went on to score 158 and 71.’
(The PC scum wouldn’t let him get away with that today.)
2. ‘Peter Parfitt, the Middlesex and England batsman, was a speaker at a major celebration in London for Compton’s 70th birthday. He claims that the chief guest was called to the telephone by a lady who had heard about the dinner: eventually, he agreed to take the call. “Denis,” she said, “it’s me, your mother. You’re not 70, you’re only 69.” ‘
Antimacassars were big with the comrades when I first went to China.
Mr Boot:-
“Even more ominously, Frank Field, MP, wishes to introduce, and his fellow member of the Labour Party Dave Cameron supports, a bill obligating the Church to comply with the secular law against sex discrimination.”
And would this apply to the muslim faith? And if not, why not? Of course we know the answer to that but why doesn’t someone ask it openly of that smug, quiche-faced prat Cameron?
English Spring.
Malfleur 23rd, – 02:12
“Gilette’s Brylcreem”?
I DID say they were a funny lot, those Canucks. Perhaps it came from a pre-teen lad exploring the mysteries of his Dad’s bathroom cabinet?
Malfleur (04:52)
I don’t mean ‘disgrace’ a la Jimmy Savile, or like that of many MPs (even Prime Ministers) these days. In my youth any tacky commercialism by our sporting heroes was deplored and too much attention to the barnet would have been regarded as well – a little less than masculine. Not only that, but don’t forget he played for Arsenal – infra dig among the common herd of my habitat; people tend to forget his footballing fame. But then, Les Compton also played for the Gunners and nobody challenged his machismo. They would have been kicked off the park had they done so. He didn’t advertise Brylcreem either.
Good sporting anecdotes, those, Malfleur. First timers for me. Blowers’ soul didn’t pass through you when he passed, by any chance? Thanks, got the chuckle glands going and the bright Friday morning sunshine hereabouts helped too. But then, I haven’t watched the news yet. Perhaps I’ll give it a miss today and take a stroll in the Queen’s back garden, instead.
Well-wisher (07:33)
Good point. Neil didn’t mention that either, during his tizzy, nor Alan Johnson. Come to think of it nor did Anne Atkins and Portillo, the protagonists. Strange, ennit?
Bill Whittle again, with an apposite intro by Gerard VDL:
http://americandigest.org/mt-archives/driveby/afterburner_with_bill_whi_1.php
In regard to a day seminar. The top end venue I approached would charge £65 per delegate for 350 delegates with all the expected conference resources, three tea breaks and a buffet lunch.
I am not about to book anything
but as an upper price point and with sponsorship it could be imagined as doable.
Saudi arseholes are now being sent text messages when their wives leave or enter the country.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2237382/Saudi-Arabian-men-sent-text-message-wives-leave-enter-country-equal-rights-campaigners-criticise-airport-system.html
I’ve said it many times. The West needs to take over the oilfields, major roads, ports and airports and run them. Leave the Saudis with their primitive country the way we found it. They would need to passports to enter Western areas of the country. The rest of the time they could work in their jobs, whatever the hell job anyone would employ a Saudi for, and eat babaganoush.
Their passports would not be valid for entry into Western countries. It is time these primitives were hauled into the 21st Century by force.
The Israel/Gaza truce – like all previous ones – is obviously only temporary. Some opinion – including that of many Israelis – is that the only way to stop Gaza resuming its rocket (and other) attacks is to thoroughly “crush” Gaza. One article that I’ve read even hints that the only effective solution to the Gaza problem is the Hiroshima/Nagasaki one.
However it seems, to me, that even that would not put a stop to the determination of the rest of the Islamic world to destroy Israel.
Clifford D. May, writing in today’s National Post reminds us of that Iran’s former President, Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani has told the world not only that Islam is contemplating the destruction of Israel by nuclear bombs, but claims that the Islamic world would easily survive the consequences. He said – “Application of an atomic bomb would not leave anything in Israel. But the same thing would just produce damage in the Muslim world.”
“Just produce damage in the Muslim world”? It’s frightening, but I believe Rafsanjani is right.
Moreover, the only nuclear bombs used on the Muslim world by way of response will be Israeli ones. I do not believe that the USA will use them. The only thing that could cause that would be a nuclear attack on the USA itself.
Islam of course will proclaim (and believe) there has been a great Islamic victory so it would be interesting to hear what people think will happen after Israel is destroyed.
Islam’s strategy is of course to rule the entire world but once it has destroyed Israel, what will be Islam’s next tactic? And how will the rest of the world respond? I can’t imagine western Europe doing anything but offer yet more appeasement.
Frank P @ 18.06. it’s a deal, sir, but be warned, if the blue veined barbarian is first to arrive at the said gate he may be dispatched at once to hell on account of his smoking. If that happens you carry on, enter the zone of internal bliss, send him a card.
Still, Baron hasn’t got the time to blog as much as you do, all of you, and just as well, one has to be careful what one says these days, you know, amongst the many shifts that have happened in the last half a century or so, in the times of blossoming freedoms, equality aplenty, unlimited diversity and stuff, the feeling that someone’s watching over one is the most unexpected in a country that prided herself on the freedom of expression, association, demonstration…. In the middle of the 19th century, the country allowed the bearded wonder of the proletariat, the rouser Karl Marx, to settle in London when Europe was in turmoil, the man himself expelled from, forbidden to live in virtually every other major city on the continent, and the chartists here were threatening to cause havoc, yet the government didn’t rush to pass laws limiting any of the freedoms, they didn’t talk about press censorship, didn’t imprison the Chartists’ boss Feargus O’Connor (wasn’t he mad or syphilitic or something?), in fact, just the opposite, the Government told the European powers pleading to have Karl arrested to go jump the tree. Where the hell is that Britain then?
Frank P re Scouseophobia.
Thanks and I appreciate the compliment.
North Lancashiremen have always held contempt for distrusted the many thieving, lying, lazy parasitic scumbags that infest the banks of the Mersey, giving the Decent Liverpudlian a bad name.
But I don’t know who holds that title at the moment.
Herbert T at 18.19. well back last century, Baron attended a lecture that mulled over the future of the ME region. Amongst the many speakers, one was a retired US Army general who didn’t impress much (far too technical, down to minute detail) except for an answer to a question ‘what would you do if he had the power to do anything at all’. The guy thought for a while, then said slowly and deadly seriously as if each word were made of gold: ” I would turn the whole damn place into a giant parking lot’. Baron has forgotten everything connected with the gathering except for this one short sentence. Amazing what one stores in one’s memory cells nibbled by Alzheimer, isn’t it?
Baron, that’s a good idea about trying to get a very short paragraph from a variety of bloggers. I may well try that.
Melanie’s latest roundup of real news:
http://melaniephillips.com/yet-more-real-news-again
An excellent analysis followed by what must surely be a rhetorical question?
“Just whose side is America now on in the great battle for civilisation?”
A depressing thought, but four more years of Obama+Hillary = game over.
Frank P – I happen to think that American/Canadian Thanksgiving is the nicest holiday of the year. It doesn’t honour a person, however revered. But honours the human spirit in braving a wild, freezing and unprectible Atlantic and a continent with wildlife and geograpjy of which they had no knowledge at all.
The people of Mayflower were brave beyond belief.
OK, I forgot that Hillary won’t be there.
It’s another Rice!
Herbert T @ 18.19
and this
It’s near impossible for the barbarian from the east to share your concerns fully re the followers of Allah taking over the world. Experience, more than anything else, has convinced him the obvious almost inevitably never carries the day, the ‘trend is never the best friend’ over a long span of time. I know this ain’t the view shared by you, and certainly not by the leader of the tribe Frank P (the barbarian is already prepared to take penance), but Baron’s more inclined to be informed by the pearl of wisdom of the late Osama ‘people always bet on the winning horse’. In the recent past, the winning stallion may appear to have been the one ridden by the mullahs keen on jihad, but that’s only because they have had and still have the oil money, and also because those who govern us have abandoned faith in our own culture. Neither ballgame is likely to last for ever, and when that happens a construct that has greater affinity with the desires, wants, aspirations of the unwashed of whatever DNA, race or creed will win on the day. And that isn’t the one you fear, my blogging friend.
Not that long ago, the Germans, as near as everyone, bet on the Adolf’s filly. Look at them now. What the great unwashed want everywhere is quiet life, enjoyable bonking, cold beer or equivalent, raising pigeons, growing carrots and stuff. They may be forced into jihad of one form or another, but it ain’t their permanent state of mind, more a transient aberration imposed by the deluded few that cannot last for it’s inimical to human nature. Even in the most brutal form so far in the former Soviet Union, it only lasted for around half a century.
Came across this young lady in the DT… like the style.
http://www.alexandraswann.co.uk/
An opportunity for a suitably coiffed Malfleur to turn on the charm 😉
Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
Y’know, the old Yanks don’t have too much use for democracy…in other countries. It confuses them. They need to be sure that the bloke currently in power is going to be there for a while, if for no other reason than that it ensures the brown envelope doesn’t go astray. They like ‘strong’ leaders.
So, just what did Hillary say to Morsi 48 hours ago? Is he now Uncle Sam’s man, bought and paid for?
And, in declaring himself dictator, has he just screwed it all up by overplaying his hand?
Verity, the people on the Mayflower were Christians. That was what gave them courage. Had they not been they wouldn’t have made the journey.
Noa 23rd, – 20:33
“Alexandra Swann”
Takes no prisoners, does she?
Ostrich
Yep-a size 5 4 inch stilleto delicately pinning Red Ed’s marxist throat to the floor.
A rare pleasure to see in one so young…
Peter from Maidstone
November 23rd, 2012 – 21:16
“Verity, the people on the Mayflower were Christians. That was what gave them courage. Had they not been they wouldn’t have made the journey.”
And who were they fleeing from? Other professed Christians?
Many non-Christians have been intrepid and resourceful. surely? Not denying their courage, but they didn’t have a monopoly on it, which your rather partisan summary implies?
Baron @20:17
The Germans’ mindset is still pretty much the the same as it was.
We can all relax, though. To prevent history repeating itself they’ve passed a law against it. I’m sure we all feel much safer for that.
I see there’s a programme on BBC4 tonight at 10.00pm called “Ultimate Number 1s at the BBC” – it only lasts an hour, but I think the sequel, yes yes you can see what’s coming, “Ultimate Number 2s at the BBC” will need a bigger slot. Or something.
And in the real world, I think £65 for day in the company bright people would be a bargain, though could we have a video / skype connection to those brilliants who write from abroad – or Norfolk? No show without Punch as they say.
Baron,
You say that “…a transient aberration imposed by the deluded few … cannot last for it’s inimical to human nature”. I’d like to believe that that’s true, but the fact that both Hitler’s and Stalin’s regimes lasted only for a limited time doesn’t convince me.
Islam’s hold over the peoples who have ‘submitted’ to it has lasted at least 1400 years. That seems to me to be strong evidence that it can last.
Moreover, Islam is still expanding at every opportunity – using the same fundamental methods that include war at every opportunity.
Consequently, I believe that Islam will last – unless the civilised world puts a permanent stop to it.
Maybe that will require the cooperation of India, Russia* and China because both western Europe and America seem to be more inclined to appeasement – and even cooperation – than anything else.
*I take heart every time I see the reproduction of Repin’s painting of the Cossacks writing their reply to the Sultan of Turkey –
http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://faceintheblue.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/cossackslaughing.jpg&imgrefurl=http://faceintheblue.wordpress.com/2010/05/30/cossacks/&h=1300&w=2202&sz=1247&tbnid=H0FZretbzK5gGM:&tbnh=73&tbnw=123&prev=/search%3Fq%3Drepin%2Bcossacks%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=repin+cossacks&usg=__GO5eDiXni5ft__cqqcd-YlwY1WA=&docid=-u6h0My-e1Lt0M&hl=en&sa=X&ei=LfmvUJKPA4WpiQKwvIDgAw&sqi=2&ved=0CEcQ9QEwBA&dur=5283
Herbert Thornton @22.35
Thank you for that enjoyable post and the famous, hugely enjoyable Reply.
It would doubtless be considered religiously aggravated hate speech today, totally untweetable.
Even as I re-post it on Facebook I hear the booted, unrythmic clud of the politically liberated constabulary pounding up the pathway to my front door.
“Open up in the name of Delors”
I fought Delors and Delors won (Hat tip Rhoda Klapp).
Re the Reply – brill.
Would that there were an iota of that defiance in our backbone less politicians.
Frank, just telling the truth about why they went. Dont recall saying anything about anyone else. You’ve added that yourself. Those who chased them away weren’t very Christian.
Frank P – The people who set out on the Mayflower were not escaping a dictator. They were, in a tradition that has developed over hundreds of years, trying to better themselves.
Noah and Rhoda K (who we haven’t heard enough from recently):
“I fought Delors and Delors won (Hat tip Rhoda Klapp).”
Pun of the month.
PfM 24th, – 00:00
“Those who chased them away weren’t very Christian.”
I don’t believe they were actually ‘chased’. They just didn’t wish to conform to the model of ‘Christianity’ that was politically acceptable at the time, so they chose to leave. And the model that they set up over there seems to have been quite close to Cromwell’s puritanism. THAT didn’t work out too well over here, when it was tried.
Herbert Thornton @ 22.35
A robust reply by the Zaporozhian Cossacks to Sultan Mehmed IV of the Ottoman Empire. I think they must have been Orthodox.
Peter (midnight);
I’m not a great advocate of Wiki and I’m sure there are better accounts of the Pilgrims; but this at least gives a somewhat less simplified version of who went and why, than the one you posited. Seems to me they were a mixed bag, like all adventurers and rebels.
Btw – Verity ‘got on her bike’ a few times. Was it because she was a Christian – or because she was Ca … sorry, Verity? Sometimes courage comes with the genes, not with religion.
And sometimes courage can lead to bloody-minded recklessness and ultimate dependence on others as a result. Even a Christian has to ‘define his terms’ – Socrates said that long before Jesus was a twinkle in Joseph’s eye (or was it Gods eye), we shall never know for sure about that provenance – but those who wish are entitled to believe one way or the other – or like me, pass; for the time being, anyway.
And despite your little wriggle post facto, I did detect an implicit exclusivity in your original riposte to V. (with the greatest respect).
Anyway … try this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrims_(Plymouth_Colony)
Complicated yarn – ennit? Upon which, many myths and legends have been constructed – some benign and beneficial; some exploitative and self-serving.
Verity
Yes, I saw Rhoda’s pun over in Trolltopia and second (or is it third now?) your vote for potm. Great pity Rhoda decided to stay with the other crew; that’s life. But Rhoda’s skill is in the ripostes to the trolls. The tension spawns the humour and provokes the thoughtful stuff she/he comes up with frequently.
The main trolls there are, imho, the hacks themselves. Tele is, and always will be, the whipping boy.
Which is why I felt we should have taken on all comers here, rather than excluding the twerps – who brought the best out in Nicholas for instance. I thought we were objecting to censorship and the blog incompetence of Frasier & Co. That’s why we escaped, wasn’t it?
But it’s Peter’s patch, so he’s entitled to call the shots. I’m sad to note the infrequency of Austin B and Andy CP; I know each has a life, but they do occasionally appear over there – as preference? Austin is extracting himself from his current career, I understand, so he’s forgiven. I guess ACP is trying to make a crust; it alright for us coffin dodgers, I suppose, with time on our hands.
But I, for one, miss two of the best satirists in the ‘sphere.
Where’s Anne today, btw? Hope the Middle East hasn’t driven her into a slough of despond, or that she’s ill?
Tommy Robinson: a word
Mr. Robinson has been locked up in solitary confinement in Wandsworth jail since 24th October for “conspiring to cause a public nuisance” and for using a false ID to travel to the USA and back in September. He will not come before the beak until 7th January.
What is it which gets up the nose of the political class about Mr. Robinson?
The English Defence League is pretty much a one issue organisation: opposition to extremist islam.
“…the core values of Western civilisation are directly threatened by the brand of islam practised by terrorists like Muktar Sayyd Jamal derived as it is from from the teachings of the 19th century Wahhabist Sayyid Jamal al-Din and the Muslim Brotherhood leaders, Hassan al-Banna and Sayyid Qub. The separation of church and state, the scientific method, the rule of law and the very idea of a free society…all these things are repudiated by the islamists…Hizb ut-Tahrir (‘Party of Liberation’)…openly proclaims its intention…to make ‘Britain an islamic state by the year 2020’. A projection of current population trends has the muslim share of the British population ‘passing 50% by 2050’.
Now Mr. Niall Ferguson, who included those words in Chapter 6 of his book, Civilisation, has not yet to my knowledge been hassled by the police, his career destroyed, his home wrecked, himself beaten up by muslim attackers, his right to express himself curbed and the life of himself and his family threatened; but then like our philosophers his job is to explain not to change. They did come for the philosophers too in the end though.
Mr. Robinson is not so lucky; he is in the van; he went out into the street; he is not middle-class; his writing suffers from the effects of the state education system established for his good by the political class; he speaks with passion, but not with cultivated eloquence.
But he knows one thing, and it seems to have driven him to abandon a safe life: a Britain in which 50% of the population is muslim is not a good idea. He wants to oppose that; he has gathered some like-minded people about him and he has gone into the streets where Englishmen have traditionally expressed views which are too large to be discussed around the kitchen table.
He is getting his come-uppance for presuming to step into an area which is the preserve of the trough-lsnouting politicians and media of Westminster and our other major cities. They are out to stop him and they have the support of the islamo-left-liberal alliance.
Mr. Robinson’s one issue has become two issues.
There is a short, less than satisfactory interview by Michael Coren with Kevin Carroll here:
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2012/11/kevin-carroll-talks-to-michael-coren-on.html
where you can take a look at Mr. Robinson’s passport in the name of an alias, Paul Harris, on which he travelled to the New York conference in September so that you have the information when the hearing comes up in January. No one seems to be releasing any information, pro or contra, to explain this document, but it is a bit low down on the list for crime of the decade I would have thought -EVEN IF if the Passport Office did not cooperate in issuing it.
In the meantime, the EDL site has announced that a demonstration in support of Mr. Robinson will be held today outside Wandsworth jail. There are also demonstrations in his support planned, I believe, in France and Germany.
Is there any good reason in law or equity why he should not be granted bail so that he may spend Christmas with his wife and children, or has the Court been bought off?
Frank P
November 24th, 2012 – 01
Hi, Frank.great to see you asking after me. Alas, the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune (or poverty) have sent me into the slough of despair! Dramatic, that 🙂 Seriously pal, I have had a few personal problems to resolve, and whilst I have been reading all the postings avidly, I haven’t put my pennyworth in. I’m gnashing my teeth, wishing for once that I was young again, and could really do battle with the idiots who control our lives. Trust you are keeping fit, Frank, you seem in full fettle, and long may you remain a voice of sanity in this crazy world.
Back for a moment to the differences of opinion about God, evolution and creationism.
Today’s National Post included in a reader’s letter (from Jim Rabyniuk) a remarkably lucid suggestion. He wrote that from a biblical perspective, verse 1 Chapter of Genesis could, without a change to any other single verse, be replaced with –
“In the beginning, God caused the Big Bang.”
Herbert Thornton@ 03:00
But we discussed this shortly after this site opened, didn’t we? The Big Bang was caused, so the best physicists say, “by a singularity”…
The reports of violent demonstrations across Egypt, aimed at the Muslim Brotherhood and its offices, suggests that another big hole has been blown in Obama’s foreign policy.
Frank, I have only excluded telemachus as a troll. So there is no reason for others not to post other than that they choose not to.
Unfortunately/fortunately the conservative movement does not follow a programme and we cannot easily insist on people doing things, since that is to some extend the antithesis of what many conservatives stand for.
The site is here for whoever wants to post comments. It is here for most people who want to write full blogs, and it is here for the visitors who have read 96,000 pages so far this month.
I don’t see any value at all in allowing trolls on any site. They add nothing. A few amusing ripostes is no reward for the life which they suck out of a site. And it is deliberate, it is not just an alternative voice, it is a deliberate subversion of the intention of a site. So I am happy for contrary opinion, and stupid opinion to appear here, but not trolls. If trolls are allowed then the site is finished.
I would be disappointed if the best of writing was not born out of our current situation in any case. Mr. Boot writes brilliantly but is not responding to trolls, rather he is responding to the times, and The Times.
Husband and wife’s foster children from ethnic minorities ‘taken away because couple joined Ukip’
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2237660/Husband-wifes-foster-children-ethnic-minorities-taken-away-couple-joined-Ukip.html#ixzz2D81Oeh00
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This is one of the reqsons I am bloody well fed up. We are living in a gestapo/stasi run country, and most of the population are too cowed to do or even say anything. We need a revolution, an English Spring, but will it happen? No, we don’t do thiongs like that, we’re British, it wouldn’t be nice!!
I am just heading out for a meeting, but if someone can get the email details of the right person then I will certainly email a complaint when I get home.
AWK1
24th, – 08:55
“Husband and wife’s foster children from ethnic minorities ‘taken away because couple joined Ukip’”
A quarter of a century ago (it doesn’t sound quite so long if I phrase it so!) a colleague of mine from that benighted ‘administrative area’ called it “The Peoples’ Republic of South Yorkshire”. I can’t imagine that it’s got any better since.
“Sally Bercow abandons Labour ambitions”
Damn! That’ll improve their chances.
Anne Wotana Kaye 1
This may be too important to ignore.
The tactic of demonising political opponents is effective as if you can then exclude them from areas of employment, such as is done with the BNP, and equate membership of a party with being unfit to look after children, as in this case, you will discourage the type of membership you need.
This incident should be tackled head on with a campaign of letter writing to MPs.
The decision itself is probably unlawful but that is only relevant if it is challenged.
There is an election soon in Rotherham isn’t there?
hrpgenenq@rotherham.gov.uk
to JOYCE THACKER
I would like to recommend several candidates to work at Rotherham Council.
Unfortunately, they are dead, their names being Adolf Hitler and Stalin.
However, Joyce Thacker will have plenty more suitable workers, people
who will make a good bonus on their council salaries by trading in
young English girls.
Thacker you are an evil lump of filth. You represent the very worst of
dictatorships and corruption, and at the end of the day, Jimmy Saville
will look like Mother Teresa compared to you and your Department!
Anne Wotana Kaye (Mrs)
EMAIL SENT TO EMPLOYMENT DEPT AS TACKER HIDES HER EMAIL NUMBER!
Sent this off just now. I challenge her to sue me!
Anne Wotana Kaye 1 @ 08:55
I notice in reading the DM article that the Rotherham Council spokesman and the staff involved are given anonymity. Personally. I think that they, as public servants, should be denied anonymity, should be named, and should be given a chance to confirm or otherwise the reasons alleged for seizing the children from their home and the legal basis on which they acted.
It is all too easy for these jobsworths to hide from responsibility for their acts. Furthermore, they appear to have outrageous powers to act without any kind of hearing and based on ignorant misinformation. Please correct me if I am wrong, but do these “social workers” and their masters have a right to arrest children on nothing stronger than their own say-so? I see “the spokesman” says “‘With careful consideration, a decision was taken to move the children to alternative care”. Ok, let’s see the memorandum of the meeting or meetings at which that careful consideration was given. “After careful consideration” is the stock phrase usually inserted into the wording of resolutions of meetings of the Board of Directors of companies and is put there to protect the backsides of the directors who have given no such consideration whatsoever, but have simply decided that they want to do something.
The Social Services Dept of Rotherham Council had been the subject of official criticism during inspections and was recently “upgraded” from “inadequate” to “adequate”. You can see Thacker speaking about this here:-
http://www.rotherhamadvertiser.co.uk/news/87030/video-kids-services-boss-hails-progress.aspx
I don’t think writing to Rotherham will do any good because they are clearly mired in their own left-wing propaganda. I suggest writing to your MPs on the democratic issue that membership of a legitimate political party should not be the target of any kind of official discrimination. If foster parents are supposed to be apolitical then I would argue that Social Services Departments must be apolitical and strictly impartial too.
Rotherham’s actions have implications for us all and I urge you to address your MPs on the principle involved as soon as possible.
The sub-text is the way that the definition of ‘racism’ has been broadened and extended to become a political weapon of the left to suppress freedom of speech. The action of Rotherham Social Services appears to originate from this and demonstrate it. Apparently it is now a racially aggravated hate crime to call an Australian and Australian.
This nonsense has to stop and since the useless occupant of No.10 who promised to “sweep it all away” has so far done nothing I urge you to write to your MPs demanding that democracy, freedom of conscience and the membership of legitimate political parties be protected by law against discrimination such as this, which in itself is nothing less than a hate crime.
The upcoming Rotherham by-election should be a gift for Nige, hopefully!
Your shout, Peter. You explained at the outset. Just opining, not complaining – but lusting after a little raw meat. Puts ink in the pen. Tilting at windmills (literally recently) is all very well, but hand to hand fighting stirs the blood, too. To be fair, the enemy’s emissaries over there are a pretty confused lot and it can be like shooting fish in a barrel.
Whaddaya mean, Alexander Boot doesn’t take on trolls? He hasn’t got a forum, it’s one way traffic unless you write direct to him and that’s not the same as a free-for-all comments section, as you well know. Once again – his shout – and I have expressed my respect for his opinions often enough. Horses for courses, I suppose. But I’m just an old shit-stirrer – when the air gets a little rarefied, I tend to gasp for oxygen.
Well-wisher
November 24th, 2012 – 10:45
Good morning! Well, friend, to you and all others who think writing to one’s MP is the answer, I regret to say, a waste of time! What if one’s MP is Labour, or even worse NatLib? They will just try to cover their arses, and the Thacker’s policies are whgat they themselves stand for. We are now at the stage Germany was in 1933, and does anybody think that letters sent by Germans would have stopped Hitle? Likewise was Stalin’s in-tray a weapon against dumping objectors in the Gulag?
Well-Wisher
I agree and have already written to mine.
Joyce Thacker is the Head of Children’s services but whether she is the statutory officer responsible for social services is not clear.
There used to be a provision that certain services: finance, social services being two, had to have a “responsible officer” appointed. I’m not sure if it still applies.
Anyway, this decision will have been made in the name of the appropriate chief officer.
We then have the role of the councillors on the appropriate committee.
Another area is the professional body that social workers are registered with. Is it appropriate that people holding such politically prejudiced views make decisions on children’s lives?
Ukip should mount a legal challenge on the grounds the decision was based on irrelevant issues and therefore irrational and hence unlawful and ask for donations to fund it.
AWK – I don’t think it is necessarily the answer but it is part of the democratic process. Whether your MP agrees or not he or she is supposed to represent the views of his or her constituents. Without at least articulating the view we remain a silent majority/minority.
Every time I have written to my own MP, even by email, he has done me the courtesy of replying with a proper letter. He might not always agree but at least he knows my views and acknowledges them.
One of the ways the left has managed to advance is by pretending they represent the majority, mainstream view. And part of that is because the silent majority remain silent.
The question of what really constitutes racism and whether UKIP are a racist party is fuzzy and needs airing.
Well-wisher (10:45)
Once again Occam’s Razor applied; excellent suggestion! Perhaps Eric Pickles is the feller to aim at – he’s local government supremo still, isn’t he? Or did he get shunted in the last shuffle?
Well-Wisher
Yes like “heresy” in the Middle Ages the cry of “racism” can silence dissent.
There is also a strategic consideration. If you demonise a political party to the extent that it discourages certain people joining ,due to possible damage to their careers etc ,you are able to manipulate the membership and image of that party.
Whether we are considering the BNP or, if you wished to work for the BBC, the Conservative party these are important considerations. The BNP would have been a greater threat to Labour, being a socialist alternative, if it had attracted the middle classes in greater numbers. It did not because it was demonised and employment opportunities closed effectively to members.Ukip must ensure the same tactic is not used against them or they will never replace the Conservative party as a main stream free market national democratic party.
Well-wisher
November 24th, 2012 – 11:41
Hello, again. Most times I agree with you. so perhaps I am growing cynical as the years past. I have written to MPs in the past, and having excellent PR and PAs too, they have always responded with courtesy. Yet, the results have always been the same – nothing changes. What I disagree with in your posting is that you state “but it is part of the democratic process”. But, and this is a big But, I don’t believe that this is a democratic country anymore, and to regain democracy, weapons more rigorous than letters are required.
Ok, so Mr. Dalrymple and Mr. Boot, and all the other pundits are not doers, only thinkers. It has however been suggested, and other people are working on it, that “philosophers have sought to understand the world; the point, however, is to change it”.
Can we bridge that gap?
How if we ask the friends we approach with an invitation to to join us with a contribution to this site or its future activities to identify what the next ten commandments should be after the existing ten? What are the next ten duties of the citizen of the West in the second decade of the 21st century? This is a philosophical question, but the answers, properly formulated, might result in right action. What is clear to me is that right action is needed.
As I see it there is now a major national socialist strategy to demonise and de-legitimise UKIP. The BNP are marginalised already, the EDL equally vilified and under persecution from the politicised police. UKIP represent something else and their increasing share of the mainstream vote must have the forces of darkness worried.
They have managed to hi-jack the Conservative party (“de-toxify”, “modernise” and “re-construct”) but UKIP must be stopped in its tracks at all costs and by any means, even on “trumped up charges”.
The fact that this is a definite scripted strategy can be seen by Rotherham’s action and the constant harassment from the telemachus troll collective at the other place. He/they refer to this site in UKIP terms and this morning the bogus “Fergus Pickering” pseudonym they sometimes use for “conversations” with themselves referred to it as “the vicars hate filled racist website”. This must almost constitute libel and is not something the Spectator should be tolerating bearing in mind their deletion of certain posts and barring of certain commentators.
UKIP’s EU stance is the subject of robust debate there already but it is the consistent emphasis on UKIP’s “racism” and opposition to “multi-culturalism” that stands out and this appears to exactly exemplify Rotherham’s actions.
The law about this seems uncertain but I would have thought that Rotherham’s accusations – and by dint of imitation the telemachus collective’s accusations – are in effect an actionable libel against each and every member of that party. If I were Farage I would be seeking legal advice about this, not least because the strategy is not going away.
I must emphasise here that I am not a member or supporter of UKIP and my concerns are solely for the fair, above board and indiscriminate pursuit of politics in this country.
AWK thank you for your reply. I understand and appreciate your view about this but we shall just have to agree to disagree. You may well be correct and I may well be wrong. I feel democracy is under real threat rather than gone completely but, optimistically, I also believe there is a counter stirring, albeit fractured and without leadership. I take comfort from the number of MPs “rebelling” in recent months and the fact that some mainstream journalists are starting to wake up.
The Levison Report will probably represent something of a watershed and if it polarises opinion and action openly then so much the better.
Anne Wotana Kaye 1
The problem is if we give up on letting our political class know we are still here they will be even more inclined to ignore public opinion.
They witter on about apathy and low turnouts but it suits them. Who knows what the result would be if turnout was higher? Blair got in with under 25% of the eligible electorate voting Labour.
The Police Commissioner elections were almost a case study in discrediting more democracy by designing a system that was guaranteed to result in low turnout, when the elections themselves could not be prevented.
As I wrote above there are strategic considerations here. The “Toxification” of the Conservatives was done step by step. The manipulation of BNP membership was done by demonization and excluding members from certain jobs.
Can a BNP member join the police? Can they become teachers? How long would they last in the BBC or local government? It is a legal political party so why have we allowed this to happen?
Ukip could make a virtue of necessity here and make such a fuss their profile increases and they are seen as standing against:”political correctness gone mad”—to use the term loved by the despised press. Or at least used so far, maybe Levenson will change that.
Well-wisher
November 24th, 2012 – 12:53 and
James102
November 24th, 2012 – 12:55
Let’s hope you are both right and I’m wrong. I’d be happy to be found incorrect, but I fear I am not mistaken.
Theodore Dalrymple speaks against the legalization of drugs in a debate in the USA:
http://www.newenglishreview.org/bloga.cfm/blog_id/45007/Dalrymple-in-Intelligence-Squared-Debate-Legalize-Drugs
(Let’s hope, by the way, that Mr. Dalrymple did not travel on a passport under that name or he may of course find himself in jail when he returns to Britain.)
Well-wisher
November 24th, 2012 – 12:43
As you can see from my posts I also see it as a strategy and one that has proved effective.
A commentator on France 24 last night said that he had never previously believed the UK would ever leave the EU but now thinks there is a 25% chance this could happen.
They have so much to lose the gloves will be off.
It is hard not to find a better example of the success the hard left has had in our public life and the inadequate craven spineless dhimmitude of the current conservative party who should be piling in on the most open of open goals.
On the one hand we have Rotherham Council over many years having a mountain of evidence of Pakistani Muslim organised rapists and child traffickers on their home patch and they do nothing until the tsunami of crimes including the murder of a child forces their hand.
On the other hand they have an impeccably well behaved and competent couple providing excellent fostering services to needy children with not a hint of anything amiss in the care they provide.
Who do they sanction? The UKIP members. I’ve read AWK and others comments regarding writing to MPs and accept that nothing directly will change. What it will do, however, is remind the Lib/Lab/cons that there are a lot of people absolutely outraged at the sheer unjustice of it all and the impunity with which the hard left operate.
By keeping he issue alive may oblige some of them to mind their electoral backs.
Hexhamgeezer
November 24th, 2012 – 14:53
Good analysis!
The Rotherham decision to exclude Ukip members from their fostering list and Judith Wood’s article in today’s Daily Telegraph,on her problems adopting, make me think that social workers should be excluded from these decisions and they should be restricted to making recommendations to a panel of elected councillors.
The training of social workers is so politicised and they are subject to so much sociobabel that they are simply unsuitable to make these decisions as they are more like members of a cult than a profession.
I would also like them to face personal consequences when their negligence results in serious harm or death in the same way as say a gas fitter would.
Frank P 24th, – 11:47
Well-wisher (10:45)
“Perhaps Eric Pickles is the feller to aim at”
I’m starting to worry about Pickles. I’m confident his heart’s in the right place, but the localism agenda and central diktats like restoring weekly bin collections or common standards to apply to social services don’t seem to fit together. It’s no damn’ good saying that we’ll see the local councillors at the ballot box in 2014 or whenever. That doesn’t change the politically motivated molluscs among the permanent employees who understand their duties so poorly that they should think that a couple’s political inclinations (or, indeed, several other factors) are even relevant to a fostering decision.
Mind, it’s nice to hear Naughtie, this morning, describe Ukip as a “Mainstream political party”.
I didn’t even hear him gag as he said it!
Another obvious contradiction that odious racist commissar Thacker in Rotherham needs to be quizzed on is whether she would place children (even muslim ones) with muslim families. Muslims who believe that the Koran is the perfect book (as the religion demands) and that Mohammed is the perfect man (as the religion demands) hold a number of beilefs that are untenable with the one world common purpose worldview that her party believe (she is no unbiased public servant). She needs to be questioned on this. We have seen plenty of families (not just white) who hold Christian beliefs who are prevented from adopting and fostering because of aspects of their faith. She needs to be put on record that practising muslims will be prevented as well. Additionally, she needs to supply a list of proscribed political parties whose membership in socialist Rotherham precludes one from fostering.
We can then sack the b*****.
Anne Wotana Kaye 1 November 24th, 2012 – 10:25
Re “hrpgenenq@rotherham.gov.uk
to JOYCE THACKER”
Hello Anne we watched this appalling woman on the BBC News this morning as I am sure that you did, we both said and agreed that she was a doppelganger for that dreadful head of children’s services in the ‘Baby P’ case.
I unfortunately; had to work in Rotherham for a twelve month period in the early eighties; it is truly a socialist republic a dreadful dreary town, one that has elected for years that criminal who has just had to resign as their MP.
Did you notice that Joyce Thacker claims that a complaint was received in her office from a member of the public that these people are Ukip members, I do not believe her, I suspect one of her staff reported this, did you also notice the double speak that she loaded her gobbledygook reply with.
My wife tells me that Nigel Farage had a good innings on Sky News today over the foster care scandal. Any UKIPPERS here know whether the interview is on You Tube yet? You Tube clips do quickly go viral and the political animals have to factor them into the picture these days.
Ostrich (occasionally)
November 24th, 2012 – 15:45
The key is making officials personally responsible for decisions.
Victoria Climbie and Baby P were cases where negligence by social workers led to the deaths of children. If a decision taken by someone in the private sector results in a death they can be charged with corporate manslaughter. If a humble tradesman, like an electrician, does a job that leads to death he is charged with manslaughter, why not public servants?
Even in cases where there are no deaths why should the public pay for Inquiries? The District Auditor should have a duty to surcharge officials for the cost of Inquiries resulting from their misconduct.
As I wrote above social workers resemble members of a cult more than they do members of a so-called profession.
Good to see you back and charging Anne WK1. 🙂
Even if there was a complaint from a member of the public that is sinister enough. We already have so much hysteria about child protection that rumours, gossip and malicious false complaints are the stock in trade of the “intelligence” used to make decisions by the police and the social services. They should hang their heads in shame, not least because none of this draconian nonsense has prevented real abuse and real misery from occurring on the watch of the same damn people.
It is absolutely antithetical to natural justice that mere allegations should constitute grounds for punitive or coercive action by the state and that there should be no recourse for those accused.
This should stop now. Cameron you promised to “sweep it all away”. WELL???
Gove has joined the fray.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2237660/Ukip-Husband-wifes-foster-children-ethnic-minorities-taken-away-couple-joined-Ukip.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490
I would have thought Joyce Thacker’s action is tantamount to malfeasance of public office; and the lawyers too, who authorised the diabolical act, if it is for the reasons stated – and she appears not to have denied it.
I see also that Forsyth of Trolltopia has offered wet piece on the subject;
Colonel Mustard sums up the situation:
“Colonel Mustard • 22 minutes ago
It’s all good and well for us to condemn and/or challenge this decision but why is it that when these sort of stories emerge, as they do with regular monotony these days, the government remains silent and appears to do nothing about them? If this was a leftist inspired “outrage” over one their pet causes Cameron would be in the pulpit giving us his view in a trice, followed by a constant worrying in the media until the pressure groups got what they wanted. But because it is UKIP and the whiff of “racism” has been invoked it appears that those who are responsible for championing our democracy appear to run and hide.
Where is that woman from Amnesty now? Where are all the other public figures who proclaim so loudly about equality and fairness? If diversity and democracy mean anything then surely it is the right of a couple who belong to a legitimate political party to bring up foster children within a loving family without the censure of officials on grounds that epitomise bigotry, identity group politics and the total, absolute absence of compassion.”
Exactly!
David Ossitt
November 24th, 2012 – 16:14
Ashamed to say I couldn’t get up this miserable day, and so didn’t see the programme you mentioned. I’ve since seen videos on Google, and she certainly reminds me of that pain-in-the-ass Shoesmith. Unfortunately, the political climate here has brought forth horrible people who snoop, whether for money or pleasure, or perhaps both. It is wise to shred everything, bills, letters, etc. which go into one’s rubbish bin, and destroy any material which bears your name, i.e. medicines. Many ways the Council could have found out the political choice of this couple.
Frank P
November 24th, 2012 – 16:19
Wish I’d stayed in bed! It’s really sick-making 🙁
Malfleur (24 Nov – 05:38) –
Yes, quite so. I drew attention to it because I thought the elegance of language in the suggested revised version of verse 1 of Chapter 1 of Genesis was very appealing indeed – rather as e=mc2 presumably appeals to mathematicians.
Anne
Well go back to bed and I’ll give you a shout when something good happens; which is probably what Rip Van Winkle’s wife said to him. I think you’d probably have to wait for more than 20 years before arousal, so to speak, on this occasion.
Frank P
November 24th, 2012 – 17:12
Frank, you seem as optimistic as I am 🙂
Frank P @16:16
“My wife tells me that Nigel Farage had a good innings on Sky News today over the foster care scandal.”
Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDq-1bsi5UE
Rather than get at the truth, the interviewer seemed to be a bit hostile towards UKIP. Rather clumsy. Chip-shoulder-bee-bonnet etc.
Here’s Michael Gove:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9yjIK-owLc
Good on him.
I’m surprised that the in Rotherham Stasi don’t already make enquiries into whether prospective foster carers hold suitable views on other leftie causes. eg. global warming, wind turbines etc. etc.
EC
Thanks for the links. Excellent in both cases. My wife was right – as she always is, of course.
And o’er The Pond, Mark Steyn in scintillating form; he must have had a good Thanksgiving. Moreover, he’s the kind of Christian I favour, muscle and blood:
http://www.ocregister.com/opinion/kelley-378593-intelligence-director.html
Anne Wotana Kaye 1
November 24th, 2012 – 16:42
They are also quoted as former Labour voters so it might have been as seemingly innocent as telling a canvasser they had changed their minds.
Not being used to living in a police state Britons are not as careful as Continental Europeans, who have learnt from history to be careful.
Frank P
November 24th, 2012 – 16:41
They are unlikely to have taken legal advice before making the decision although they are probably seeking it now.
They are arrogant as only the truly bigoted can be so it would not have occurred to them their decision would be challenged.
An interesting comment published elsewhere…
“I have met Joyce Thacker on a few occasions, whilst she was head of Bradford youth service. At the moment there is an a yet to emerge story regarding grooming and child abuse in the Bradford/ Keighley area that is equal to if not bigger than the terrible events in Rotherham (see Anne Cryer MP, who has been vocal on this) Joyce Thacker oversaw the stopping of prosecutions, the stopping of the ‘groming and let the repeated rapes carry on…they still are going on.
She had a reputation with staff as someone who would attack them in a brutal manner if they had the temerity to challenge her. I know that one of her lines was that if staff mentioned abuse by asian men, they would be dismissed for racism. As you can imagine, they were not happy bunnies, as some staff were working directy with victims.
Mrs Thacker has a track record in colluding with and covering up abuse.She shoud face criminal prosecution for this collusion. She has little professional experience or training in child protection. In Bradford she left a ‘disrupted,’ youth service and a general atmosphere of fear regarding senior management
I worked for a charity project, and viewed with horror, her actions (in-actions!) and was disturbed when she got the job in Rotherham.Mabye
she got the job as she is skilled in cover up, blaming others and dodging the bullets.
A word of warning; Joyce will be swift and nasty when challenged, blaming anyone and smearing them as much as she can. If she was profiled
by a psychologist, the report would match that of a sociopath.”
I went to the cinema on Friday with my wife, a rare treat. She wanted to see Nativity 2 and then was disappointed that David Tennant was starring. I could have told her that but she seemed keen.
Anyhow, an advert came on that became more and more disturbing. It was using a classroom of primary children, before a children’s film, to promote and propagandise the Human Rights Act. And it was produced by some organisation with a website called Common Vision.
Is it still the case that churches can’t even advertise local services in their local cinemas? How can an overtly political and common purpose advert be allowed? Especially before a children’s film?
EC@ 1738
re ‘I’m surprised that the in Rotherham Stasi don’t already make enquiries into whether prospective foster carers hold suitable views on other leftie causes. eg. global warming, wind turbines etc. etc’
20 years ago it would be deemed the ravings of a right wing nutcase if you suggested outfits like Rotherham and marxists like Thacker would be in power doing what they do.
Who is to say that opposition to AGW, turbines and the like will not be unless we are rid of such enablers as Milliband, Cameron and Clegg.
Guido believes Joyce Thacker is a Common Purpose graduate. He gives a link to her interview on Radio 4 today—God is she bad!
It is a gift for Ukip.
We really need to limit the power of these social workers. If this is the standard of senior managers!!!
Find ADVFN Financial News on Google and read about this horrible woman. If you have a string stomach, there is also a video of the TV interview. Interesting that Saville was a Patron of the Care Home …Hmmmmm!
Joyce Thacker: Rotherham’s Sour Faced Stasi Leader & the UKIP Foster parents scandal
By Tom Winnifrith
Three things are clear here. The first is that the needs of the kids were secondary to political dogma. They were happy with the UKIP supporters. God knows where they are now. The local Council run care home (patrons the late Sir James Savile & Cyril Smith MP), other foster parents? Who knows? But it cannot be guaranteed that they traded up.
Frank P: 1800
As you say Frank, incisive commentary by Mr Steyn, delivered in an entertaining style.
Any idea how many people read his postings?
Hexhamgeezer (various)
Very well said, your observations, concerning the approach to the UKIP-supporting foster couple versus the ongoing, Asian-gang-raping of Caucasian children, are indeed eye opening.
EC’s Michael Gove interview was heartening but Mr Gove, whom I admire, still avoided mentioning the appalling double standards exhibited.
joyce.thacker@rotherham.gov.uk
HER EMAIL ADDRESS
joyce.thacker@rotherham.gov.uk
Two things:
1. I am still naive enough to hope the Spectator can again become genuine, conservative publication. However, having read the magazine and visited the website fairly carefully, there is precious little written about CP and this greatly disappoints me. Is this to be a repeat of the absence of comment on Neather’s statement?
2. If I were a betting man, would it be worth me putting a dollar on there being not a mention of the Thacker UKIP / Pakistani child rapists anomaly highlighted by Hexhamgeezer?
What would be intersting would be to find out how many, if any, Spectator staff have ever attended Common Purpose meetings and seminars?
What do you all think of this – I’ve just downloaded it and haven’t yet done more than skim it very briefly – but the few bits that I’ve read are very persuasive –
Fjordman: Defeating Eurabia (PDF)
Warning – it’s difficult to find on the Internet. I think I found it as a result of someone posting a link to The Gates of Vienna site.
Malfleur: 1231
Interesting concept, trying to define the next Ten Commandments. Mine would clearly be defined as right-wing, largely following concepts instilled in me by my parents: honour, loyalty, honesty, hardwork, self-sufficiency, care for those less fortunate and duty etc. Boring maybe but fundamental for me.
Can you even begin to imagine what someone like Ms. Thacker’s would look like? Probably coming in at number three would be: “all men are potential wife-beaters, except those nice halal gentleman, they are so nice, just look how fond they are of children”.
Malfleur: 0208
“Is there any good reason in law or equity why he should not be granted bail so that he (Mr Tommy Robinson) may spend Christmas with his wife and children, or has the Court been bought off?”
Poignant statement: Mr Robinson has been well and truly silenced and treated appallingly. How on earth can this have happened on the watch of a Conservative-majority Government? I cannot believe I ever thought Mr Cameron was an old-school Tory. He is either completely lacking in principle or else in the back pocket of some powerful anti-British group.
PfM: 2017
Indeed!
May I enquire, what is the current fiscal status of sustaining the site?
Herbert Thornton
Very interesting Herbert, the Wik****ia (I hate typing that word in full) entry is illuminating: key derogatory comment is mention of Breivk (deliberate misspelling).
Smearing done, job over etc.
Whoops, I will put in an order for humble-pie at my local Baker…
Spectator Website:
The prejudice on display in Rotherham
69 CommentsJames Forsyth 24 November 2012 15:44
Redneck, thanks for asking. A bit more would cover the hosting, and a fair bit more would cover costs of trying to develop additional content on the site.
Channel 4:-
“But until this afternoon David Cameron had accused Ukip of being mostly “closet racists”. Downing Street on Saturday told Channel 4 News that Mr Cameron no longer thinks that – and then rang back to say they don’t retract the prime minister’s original comment.”
You couldn’t make it up. That man is an absolute disgrace to the office of Prime Minister. Even Heath would not have presided over a shambles like that.
This is where his silly tendency to make off the cuff remarks backfires. He is now caught in the invidious position of appearing to agree with Thacker whilst Miliband cunningly distances Labour from Rotherham Labour Council.
What a plonker! They should change the PM’s limousine to a yellow Robin Reliant three-wheeler. That would be fitting for the quality of his “statesmanship”.
Redneck 24 Nov 20:56 –
I doubt very much that you deserve a very large helping – because I notice that Forsyth’s comments include this –
” I’m sure there are some racists who are members of UKIP, just as there are — I suspect — some Labour, Liberal Democrat, Tory and Green members who are racist.”
Notice the difference? Forsyth is “sure” that UKIP contains racists, but in the case of the Labour, Liberal Democrat, Tory and Green parties, he only “suspects” it……
Herbert
Well spotted! The power of the caveat.
Peter from Maidstone,
Jonathan Meades – I’m sure that he would prove to be highly entertaining and enlightening speaker on the state of British culture at any prospective CHW “do”. But would you have him? – seeing as he doesn’t bat for ‘your team’ – so to speak.
Well-wisher @21:11
What a plonker! They should change the PM’s limousine to a yellow Robin Reliant three-wheeler. That would be fitting for the quality of his “statesmanship”.
Superb!
Also compare and contrast Michael Gove’s recent performances with Dave’s. Dave had better watch out!
EC, Theodore Dalrymple is an atheist. I would have him. It seems difficult for most strident athiests not to subvert Western civilization by rejecting the Judeo-Christian foundations. Where this is not the case then there are often interesting things to be heard.
Redneck 24 Nov 20:56 –
And another thing. Forsyth said –
“To take these children away just because the parents are members of UKIP is prejudice, pure and simple.”
What a wishy-washy diagnosis. Taking the children away was a lot worse than “prejudice”. It was applying evil social engineering to the children and acting with malice against the foster parents. Was Forsyth trying to downplay this? To me it looks very much like it.
I agree Herbert. It suggests that taking the children away in some other slightly different circumstances, where the parents were members of an even more loathed party for instance, would be fine, but just in this instance it is going a bit too far.
If the Spectator (or even Liberty) cared about liberty and justice then it would stand against this as the evil it is.
Well, I WAS going to point out that Cameron is still standing by his infamous “fruitcakes. etc…………………..” comment, according to LBC News just now, but I see that Well-wisher has beaten me to it!
Well-wisher 24th, – 21:11
“until this afternoon David Cameron had accused Ukip of being mostly “closet racists”. Downing Street on Saturday told Channel 4 News that Mr Cameron no longer thinks that – and then rang back to say they don’t retract the prime minister’s original comment.”
Better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Herbert T @ 22.26
People like this deluded woman, the locally bred Quislings, are by far more dangerous than the jihadists you so fear, my blogging friend, the latter do it openly, are received mostly with hostility by the unwashed, the thackers are hidden from view, corrode the societal values from within. It’s a given there’re other ‘social workers’ doing the same, nobody has the courage to blow the whistle scared of being labeled ‘racist.
Who has come out best so far is Michael Gove.
” They should change the PM’s limousine to a yellow Robin Reliant three-wheeler.”
With, I presume, the appropriate three letter logo on the side?
For those who haven’t yet clicked on Mark Steyn’s piece recommended by Frank P, here ‘s a nibble. One can only marvel at the guy’s ability and wit. Sublime.
“The Kelleys have financial problems, and their luxury home faces foreclosure. For awhile they ran a charity, the Doctor Kelley Cancer Foundation, which makes terminal cancer patients’ final wishes come true. In 2007, they took in $157,284 in donations, and ran up expenses of $81,927 on dining, entertainment and travel. So, if you’ve got cancer, and your dying wish is for Jill Kelley to party, this is the charity for you”.
and last
You have missed (or has Baron missed your not missing it?) Rod Liddle’s blog on a chap called Owen Jones (on the last Thursday QT) and the crowd of his backers. Where do these people breed?
PfM
I thought I would let you know that the paypal link is unavailable at the moment.
Will try again this week?
PfM
I have inadvertently obliterated the details, would you be kind enough to resend please?
Hexhamgeezer
Sterling work over yonder today; you are welcome in the Appalachians any day, my northern brother.
Someone was asking for a photo of the Thacker crone:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/andrewgilligan/100191238/ukip-fostering-scandal-has-labour-just-lost-the-rotherham-byelection/
She looks like a hybrid of Cherie Blair and the Hodge woman. Sheer malevolence oozes from her minces, in common with the other two.
Not to keen on the ‘moral equivalence’ posited by Gilligan in his article, though:
“Joyce Thacker (above), the council’s director of children, who said her decision was influenced by UKIP’s sceptical take on multiculturalism, is the mirror image of those mad American right-wingers who want to outlaw abortion clinics and homosexuals.”
Bollocks – why not just flat-out condemn the cow for an evil abuse of power for political motives, rather than try to point score against the American ‘far right’ as a lay-off. WTF has that to do with the price of peas?
I don’t like Gilligan, who pretends to be an objective reporter, rather than just another lefty ex-BBC hack, who still can’t see that his actions in the Kelly case (blowing him out as a source) probably contributed to his suicide. Douchebag!
Communitarianism analysed – in the USA but it’s global and is what Common Purpose is all about:-
http://nikiraapana.blogspot.co.uk/2010/10/niki-raapana-talks-to-herself-about.html
These f***ers started slithering about in my neck of the woods in about 2008 and all the usual suspects – public sector lefties and teachers – were involved. One of them came to my door with bumf and I asked her who the Hell had elected her to start deciding how our local “community” should be “developed”. It was an “initiative” but not a single elected person was involved and it was parallel to and clearly intended to be subversive of the local parish council. Lots of fake charity and quango involvement too. Poison.
Gilligan writes that there “is far too much conspiracist chatter on the internet” about Common Purpose without qualifying how he measures “far too much” or on what basis. I would suggest there might be less conspiracist chatter if there was more public scrutiny of this shadowy outfit, especially by our elected politicians.
Join the dotted lines. At the Spectator’s Coffee House commentator “Michele” succinctly nails just what Common Purpose is about:-
“Common Purpose does not bother itself so much with politicians, not much point as they can get changed every four years. It focuses more on the public/civil service who have lifetime careers and who are the ones tasked to create the legislation: the police whose role is to enforce that legislation and the media – who control what we find out and what we are to think.”
This should worry all politicians as it clearly worries Nick Herbert:-
“I would reflect on a daily basis that there are meant to be hundreds, thousands of people working for me but I can’t get what I want done.”
The real story behind Rotherham is about Common Purpose and it is not about conspiracist chatter. Instead it is about the real threat to democracy and democratic accountability posed by a secretive, subversive, unelected and unaccountable organisation that tries to remain in the shadows as it programmes the public sector to socially engineer and control British society, from local councils to press regulation. That is the real story and it is dynamite for any media that wants to really get to grips with the conspiracy and fully expose it.
Redneck, I can see the paypal button OK this morning? And if links to the paypal site? Are you able to see it?
Excellent analysis Wellwisher @ 2012/11/25 at 8:24 am
Well-wisher @01:06 & @08:24
The ranks of CP members in councils and fake charities haven’t dwindled since the recession hit in 2008. Plenty of casualties in the lower ranks on minimum wage or small grants to those those groups doing real voluntary work. In Guildford the Common Purpose organisation SEEDA may have shut up shop but you can bet your bottom dollar that all the main apparatchiks were slid into positions elsewhere. Also, in my neck of woods we have been bombarded with public poster campaigns – hundreds of expensively produced banners. The main thrust of these campaigns is to tell us what we should be doing in and how good we should be feeling about “our community.” When I enquired, the banner production is outsourced to another one of those “third sector” (aka CP) fake charities.
Apart from finding it an irritating and profligate waste of public money in a time of so called austerity, I find it all very intrusive, very sinister.
“Any council which decides that supporting a mainstream UK political party disbars an individual from looking after children in care is sending a dreadful signal that will only decrease the number of loving homes available to children in need.” (Michael Gove)
“Being a supporter of a mainstream political party is not a deal-breaker when it comes to looking after children if it means they can have a loving family home…” (Tim Loughton MP)
“Being a member of a political party like UKIP should not be a bar…” (Ed Milliband)
“Mainstream”? … “like UKIP”…?
Let’s have the minutes of the meetings published at which the Rotherham Council staff gave “careful consideration” to this question before they took action.
“Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk.”
Henry David Thoreau
http://www.barackofraudo.com/
My previous post: hat tip to Glenn Beck’s site – http://www.theblaze.com/
As might have been expected, not a mention of Rotherham or Common Purpose on the BBC News this morning.
Well-wisher November 25th, 2012 – 08:24.
A sound argument very well put.
Did anyone else notice; that on this weeks ‘Have I got News for you’ Ian Hislop tried to mock The Daily Mail for having run a five or six page exposé on ‘Common Purpose’?
Boris Johnson’s sister was also mocked repeatedly by that dreadful prat
Marcus Brigstocke simply for writing for The Daily Mail.
Peter from Maidstone
November 24th, 2012 – 22:16
All atheists or just Marxists?
I’m an atheist but of the biological determinists type. I see nothing in Christianity that conflicts with what I would describe as human nature. Humans are social animals and like all social animals seem to have a built in set of values. Experiments even suggest some primates have a sense of fair play similar to our own. The problems seem to come about when ideologies, sometimes religious sometimes political, subverts these basic values and behaviours.
Think how similar cultures are across the world. The family unit is virtually universal. Mothers care for their children, incest is a rarity as is child murder. They happen, just as they happen in prides of lions or packs of wolves, but generally there seems an inbuilt wolf or lion morality. I credit this with evolution, religious people with a supreme guiding intelligence.
Barnardos is revealed in the Mail to have a similar policy towards Ukip members as Rotherham council has.
They are a charity and I would have thought vulnerable to a challenge that this is a politically biased policy.
The core problem seems to be the culture of social workers. Their training would seem to consist of being bombarded with sociobabel followed by a stint in a local authority where regardless of the political control their department will be solidly leftwing. People conform and these young people will consider policies such multiculturalism, even tinged with a bit of Anglophobia, like motherhood and apple pie: none controversial “Good Things”. It will not even occur to them it is a political policy.
Social work is more a cult than a profession which is why it is so inefficient.
Ukip needs to mount a series of challenges while this is fresh in the publics’ consciousness, it will raise their profile and hit a nerve with the electorate who recognise the increasing gulf between their values and the political class’.
Whilst I have no doubt what that galumphing, insufferably tedious lefty bore and monumental egotist the “edgy comedian” (yawn) Brigstocke might think I am mildly surprised that Hislop and Private Eye would not put Common Purpose in the cross-hairs. I would have thought it exactly the kind of pompous, self-appointed organisation they would be cynical towards and lampoon, not least because of its tentacles inside Leveson and press regulation. Presumably in the Bubble’s game of lefty credentials Top Trumps the Daily Mail is always first in line for scorn.
Let’s hope that Hislop is not the biter bit when Common Purpose start calling the shots over what Private Eye can and can’t publish.
“David Cameron is to steam ahead with a ban on cheap booze — and send the price of supermarket brands soaring. The PM plans to over-rule Cabinet colleagues by announcing proposals for a minimum price of 45P a unit within days.”
Is he mad? To push this through just before Christmas? This from the man who promised to “sweep away” the nanny state. Whatever does he think he will achieve by this? I’m starting to think this idiot really is a Manchurian candidate, in place and pursuing the most ridiculous, ill conceived and hated policies in order to make the Conservative Party unelectable.
Cameron I shall NEVER vote for you or your party again. You suck big time. Heath is starting to look mature, responsible and statesmanlike compared to your puerile and bombastic antics.
A note on our troll, from the Forsyth Rotherham thread at the other place:
Malfleur telemachus
How’s your support for Stalin holding up?
telemachus Malfleur
As Common Purpose educates through its seminars Joseph Stalin gave leadership by example and turned a nation of Serfs into a Proud Patriotic people
Thought for the Day:
Yasser Arafat, the Jimmy Savile of politics.
I suggested that a new hole may have been blown in Obama’s foreign policy.
In 2009, shortly after his inauguration, he flew to Cairo to make a speech at which he arranged for representatives of the Muslim Brotherhood to be in the front row of his audience.
His Secretary of State has a Muslim Brotherhood connection, Ms. Humah Abedin, as her confidante.
http://www.shoebat.com/documentsHuma_Brotherhood_Connections_072412.pdf
Obama has openly supported the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, among which the new self-proclaimed dictator, Morsi.
Ambassador Stevens was, allegedly, involved on behalf of the White House in running weapons to the Muslim Brotherhood in Syria to supports its efforts against Assad in a parallel with its Fast and Furious exercise in Mexico.
Support for the Muslim Brotherhood by the Obama administration is alleged widely online – search Google.
Now, however, a significant section of the Egyptian people is demonstrating violently in the streets across Egypt AGAINST the Muslim Brotherhood and their representative offices.
I am waiting with interest for the Obama administration to comment on the assumption of dictatorial powers by Morsi, the representative of extremist islam, and on the demonstrations against the Muslim Brotherhood by large numbers of Egyptians.
Bit of a sticky wicket, no, Barack Hussein?
And how about our own dear Foreign Secretary? Hastily taking advice from the Camel Corps no doubt. Don’t expect to see Fraser Nelson take a position on this any time soon either.
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/11/24/Protesters-Torch-Muslim-Brotherhood-Offices-After-Morsi-Awards-Himself-Unlimited-Powers
Well-wisher
November 25th, 2012 – 11:20
HIGNFY is heavily scripted and he may have just been reading the autocue.
Well-wisher
November 25th, 2012 – 11:34
Maybe we are the start of an EU move to bring this in, similar to the smoking ban which each country brought in one by one.
Naked climb on Whitehall Prince George statue: Man chargedA Ukrainian national has been charged after a man stripped naked on top of a statue in Whitehall in central London.
A man was seen in a variety of poses on the statue of Prince George, the Duke of Cambridge, on Friday.
Dan Motrescu, 29, of no fixed address, will appear in custody at Westminster Magistrates’ Court on Monday.
He was charged with an offence contrary to Section 5 of the Public Order Act, possession of an offensive weapon in public and criminal damage to property.
SO HE HAD AN OFFENSIVE WEAPON???? 🙂
Malfleur (12.29)
Just in case there is any reader of this site who is not fully cognisant with the nature, aims and major figures behind the Muslim Brotherhood, perhaps we should publish this link once again:
http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/2671
Scott Burgess, who once ran the Daily Ablution Blog, frequented by most of the old hands who contribute to this blog, augured most of what has come to pass in relation to the MB recently and translated the document delineating “The Project”. The so called ‘Arab Spring’ and Morsi’s seizure of absolute power in Egypt is much easier to understand with knowledge of ‘The Project’. Just as the evolution of the Leftist counter-culture and its Long March through the institutions is more easily understood if the writings of Gramsci and later the Frankfort School are studied.
Unfortunately for them, there is voluminous research material on the intertubes exposing their schemes and evil plans. Unfortunately for us, it requires hours of searching and reading and most infidels are too busy trying to put food on the table to find the time to keep up with them. The MSM media is in cahoots with the aims of each of the above mentioned movements, which are in temporary alliance, and therefore our media are unwilling to disseminate or analyse what is available.
But it can by summarised thus, both Islamic jihad and communism will adopt whatever disguises are necessary to move forward with their aims, as ‘the ends justify the means’. They will never give up and the useful idiots and dhimmis that comprise our current political leadership throughout the West are facilitating both evil movements, either wilfully or through ignorance. What is worse the great unwashed continue to vote them into office for similar reasons.
Anne Wotana Kaye 1
November 25th, 2012 – 14:08
Were there details of where he kept it?
I suppose he will be deported to the Ukraine so he can be treated.
James 102, 13:25: Until they do, I foresee a resurgence in White van man “smuggling” from Calais.
Incidentally, isn’t the very concept of “smuggling” within the EU a contradiction of the unrestricted movement of goods that is one its key principles?
James102
November 25th, 2012 – 14:29
According to the papers and BBC, no weapon was seen.
Deported? Don’t be daft – what about his ‘uman rights?
I should have pointed out that when Scott Burgess retired to a rural Slovakian retreat, having tired of attempting to alert his own compatriots in the US and the Brits (whose country he adopted for a spell) of the dangers of Islamic jihad, he closed down his blog; so the inner links quoted in the link above no longer work. No doubt he felt vulnerable in the isolation of his retirement idyll, after blowing the gaff on the bad buggers. Can’t say I blame him.
Well-wisher @ – 11:34
Cameron is a political imbecile like much of the soft left.
He needs to be very careful messing around with booze. In times like this it is an understandable port in a storm (partly of his creation).
As I said on some other thread somewhere in relation to this; does dave plan on having any incentive to vote Tory in 2014? (without an EU referendum he’s lost mine)
Hexhamgeezer
November 25th, 2012 – 15:03Well-wisher @ – 11:34
He needs to be very careful messing around with booze. In times like this it is an understandable port in a storm (partly of his creation).
=====================================
A strong, vintage Port? 😉
This is an amusing and witty piece in the aftermath of the Obama ‘victory’ in the election:
http://www.bernardgoldberg.com/clearing-the-desk/?utm_source=BernardGoldberg.com+Newsletter&utm_campaign=7a2ee6da67-NEWSLETTER&utm_medium=email
It would be very funny indeed were it not true – and tragic.
Anne (14:08)
He was taking the plinth, obviously.
Hexamgeezer … ”
“Cameron is a political imbecile like much of the soft left.”
I think he is fairly imbecilic and goes along with the soft left, but I don’t think the soft left is imbeclilic. I think they are malign.
Is GDP a sensible performance indicator?
I ask following this:
“Paul Ashworth, chief US economist at Capital Economics, said in a note that while the initial impact of the storm on the economy could be quite large” when the clean-up is taken into consideration the “overall impact on GDP growth could even be positive.”
And if due to Global Warming the governments allows,say,a million Bangladeshis to come to the UK what would happen to GDP and GDP per capita and which if either measures quality of economic life?
Fraser Nelson Tweets: .”I want to save Britain’s EU membership but it doesn’t help UK trade with emerging markets. We in-ers just can’t pretend otherwise…”
So what about our balance of trade, will this be discussed?
Frank P
November 25th, 2012 – 17:28
Frank, as long as he didn’t frighten the horses!
It is a tragedy that a woman was killed by a falling tree in Exeter Town Centre, but why did she chose to sleep in a tent in such weather? So many of these tragedies seem to be the result of thoughtlessness, and endanger others who try to rescue them.
“The 21-year-old woman was in a tent in Exeter city centre when she was struck by the falling spruce tree. Emergency teams managed to free her but she was pronounced dead shortly afterwards. Two others were seriously injured. ” Reported in DT and BBC and ITV News
Apologies if I’ve already posted this. Apparently 93% of black Americans voted for the ‘lowerer of oceans’ and this little tune explains why.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr201FqTP4w&feature=related
Good news.
The Observer’s headline story, in a desperate move to downplay their friends’ actions in Rotherham, is that Tony Blair will be making a speech this week on how it would be a disaster to leave the EU.
I for one hope it is given maximum publicity
Hexhamgeezer
November 25th, 2012 – 18:40
The main point is the UK leaving the EU is now being discussed, rather than being considered unthinkable, and then only discussed by “Fruitcakes and closet racists”.
Next it will be inevitable as the economic arguments don’t stack up (see my post above quoting Fraser Nelson) and the British people were sold it as an economic project.
The electorate are more sophisticated than in the 1970s and would not believe our political class if they said the sun will rise tomorrow.
The game will be over when they concede a cost-benefit analysis ,then try to sell it as good for “our” place in the world—by which they mean theirs.
On the matter of freedom of speech here is an ‘on the ground view’ by one of the Rotherham By election candidates.
If you lived there would you consider voting for her, or a big party apparatchik?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…
And this is what happens when the politically enfeebled public services fail in their responsibilities:
http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/reg…
Here are the links again if people are having problems with them
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URHqbE6OSlg
http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/regional/white-tigers-self-defence-youth-group-launched
Pat Condell has just posted some new home truths
http://www.youtube.com/user/patcondell?gl=GB&hl=en-GB
From UK Polling Report:
“This week’s YouGov poll for the Sunday Times is now online. Topline figures are CON 33%, LAB 44%, LDEM 9%, UKIP 8%. The rest of the poll mostly covered the EU summit (all the fieldwork was completed before the summit broke up without agreement)
On the EU budget 41% of people think that David Cameron was right and realistic to request a freeze in the budget, 35% think he was not ambitious enough and should have called for a cut, 10% think it is unrealistic to expect a freeze and that he should have accepted some level of increase in the budget. 59% of people think he should be willing to use the veto if other countries do not agreed to a freeze..
Looking at broader attitudes towards Europe, in a referendum on EU membership 49% of people say they would vote to leave, 32% would vote to stay and 19% wouldn’t vote or don’t know. Asked a less black-and-white question, 19% of people say they would like to see Britain’s relationship with the EU stay as it is, 46% would prefer Britain to stay in the EU but with a more detached relationship that is little more than free trade, 26% would like to see Britain leave completely.”
Ah YouGov! In my mind it’s irrevocably twinned with the UEA CRU.
>
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/election-2010/7546322/YouGov-pollster-gives-Labour-an-unfair-advantage.html
I see that Boris Johnson is now backtracking like mad from his support of an IN/OUT referendum. He now seems to be fully signed up to the EU project and the usual BS about staying in to help direct things.
I never thought he was on the right side. He is, like the rest, only interested in self-promotion.
An 11 year old girl has been raped by a man in Enfield…
The victim who was dressed in her school uniform, is described as white and of petite frame. She has told police that the attack continued for two to three hours and officers say she has suffered serious injuries.
Police described the suspect as a black male with afro hair wearing a dark grey top and black baggy jeans.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9701671/Schoolgirl-11-raped-on-way-home.html
Frank P
The US Embassy has now taken a position, sort of, on the riots. Minds will boggle to know that the Embassy tweets back and forth with the common man, or Tom, Dick and Mohammad, about important matters of state – so unlike our own dear Camel Corps; but here is one exchange of a number posted at the Breitbart link below under the headline: Egypt Riots Rage, US Embassy Praises As ‘Incredibly Positive’
“Gharebon
The last few RTs that USEmbassy@Cairo did is hilariously funny! Are you really trying to say that US didn’t support MB? R U FUCKIN KIDDIN ME??
US Embassy Cairo
@ Gharebon. Yes we are saying that because it is the truth and we are surprised that anyone could think otherwise.” [i.e. “I am shocked, shocked…”]
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2012/11/25/State-Department-US-Embassy-Cairo-Riots
The Obama representative in Cairo reminds me of the quote from the film: “As the leader of all illegal activities in Casablanca, I am an influential and respected man.”
Peter from Maidstone
November 25th, 2012 – 21:38
Johnson knows that the EU has enormous influence and funds available to help or hinder any candidate. Although as a proportion of our economy trade with the EU is relatively only a small factor and in deficit anyway, the companies involved wield a great deal of clout. Foreign governments also have interests in our continued membership, who would pick up our tab if we left?
To upset such powerful groups would be unwise for him.
Peter from Maidstone
November 25th, 2012 – 21:44
Yes I read the case: horrific.She is likely to suffer mentally for years and I believe has required surgery. They will also be testing her for STDs.
Last week there were also two violent attacks on women that seemed random. One in Plaistow and another on an escalator in an underground station.
We don’t always get more information on these cases but I wonder if the ease with which we (or at least our political class) allow refugees from war zones into the country is a factor.
I see a teacher in Bethnal Green has been revealed as having been convicted of murder in Bangladesh, so our checking system is somewhat casual.
Hundreds march in Blackburn in protest over Gaza
“About 200 people took part in a march through Blackburn as a protest over events in Gaza.
Roads were closed in the town centre between 13:30 and 3:30 GMT along the route from Bangor Street Community Centre to Corporation Park.
The march, which was organised by the Muslim Defence League, went peacefully with no arrests, police said.
“The police have no powers to ban a peaceful public assembly or protest, which is what has been requested.
“What we can do is impose conditions or restrictions on the demonstration such as where and when it takes place, for how long and how many people, which is what we have done in this case.”
TAKEN FROM BBC REPORTAGE
JUST HOW THE EDL WAS TREATED I THINK NOT!
I was at a conference at the WCC in Geneva some years ago and there were some activists from Africa there and they said that a girl was much more likely to be raped than get a secondary education.
I wonder if many of the same attitudes to woman and girls have not been imported without challenge into the UK over the last decade or so.
James102
November 25th, 2012 – 22:04
That ‘teacher’ from Bangladesh is another bastard that will not be sent back because of his ‘uman rights!
Anne Wotana Kaye 1
As I am now blocked from access to the Daily Telegraph by a pay wall, I have begun to consider the alternatives. I went to the Independent today and found the following headline:
“Israel’s shame: Children, the true victims.
In Gaza, one-in-three of those killed or injured is under 18”
This is an article by someone called Kim Sengupta who is the “Defence Correspondent” of the Independent. If one looks at Mr. Gupta’s recent articles listed at http://www.independent.co.uk/biography/kim-sengupta, one senses that he is perhaps one of those foreign journalists who were holed up in the fancy hotel in Gaza which Mr. Condell mentions in his piece: 23 November Another Gaza generation takes flight amid fear of violence; 21 November Bombs both sides of the border, but it’s Gaza that’s been reduced to rubble; 21 November
Wrath of Gaza is felt by those accused of treason Collaboration with Israel is a capital offence – and retribution is swift; 20 November ‘They killed my son. Why? There will be no answer’ Members of the family which lost four generations in one Israeli attack tell Kim Sengupta of a loss which has left them in despair; 15 November From air strikes to hit squads: how Israel disposes of its enemies. Netanyahu is prepared to risk international censure that such attacks have provoked in the past
The most recent article pins guilt for the death of children in Gaza on Israel;the last article is devoted to criticism of Israel for its policy of killing leading members of Hamas and other terrorist organization. Some where between those extremes perhaps Mr. Sengupta thinks there is a risk-free policy for opposing rocket showers on its territory from Gaza.
There seems to have been a few days between his article on 20th November about Netanyahu and his piece from Gaza on 15 November when Mr. Sengupta might usefully have travelled to some of the residential areas in Israel where those randomly aimed rockets have been falling on an irregular but constant basis for quite some time. He might even have found his way to one of the hospitals where, as other media have reported, Israeli doctors and nurses treat the wounds of any child brought through the door without filtering out those who might have been brought from Gaza by their distraught parents. But may be Mr. Sengupta wanted a rest or his computer was under repair or he needed to complete a passage for his book on the Gurkhas in Afghanistan – or perhaps respond to correspondence from his admirer, John Pilger. We may never know.
Hexhamgeezer at 19.59 meanwhile has given us a link to Pat Condell’s straight talk on Hamas and we can therefore see clearly, without assistance from Mr. Sengupta, where the guilt for all the deaths, maiming and misery lies.
“Yet, dotted everywhere,
Ironic points of light
Flash out wherever the Just
Exchange their messages”
Malfleur @ 23.29
Sengupta is a cretin.
If it is true that
‘In Gaza, one-in-three of those killed or injured is under 18″, that figure shows the humanity of the Israeli Defence Forces which is not his intention.
BBC sources quote that over 50% of Gazans are under 18 which demonstrates the effectiveness of the care that Israel is taking and the failure of Hamas to get more of it’s under 18 citizenry murdered for the worlds cameras.
Sengupta, you are a sh*****d of the highest order.
Hexhamgeezer
Increasingly, I don’t know where to go online for UK news and comment. I exaggerate I guess and mainly my problem is that the DT, the Times and the FT lock me out and may be I should pay up and not complain and may be I will when I get a little money soon – but I notice in the course of his interesting analysis of the reasons for the loss of the presidential election by the Republicans Pat Caddell writes:
“…I want to make a comment about, just quickly, the media. Look, I’ve said in a speech, they are the enemy of the people, and they have become a fundamental threat to American democracy…”.
http://frontpagemag.com/2012/frontpagemag-com/pat-caddell-at-restoration-weekend/
Perhaps things have not yet reached that point in our country…, but I am still looking a for a substitute for the DT, inadequate as it often was.
A couple of other points on Caddell’s speech, linked above:
1. “Romney lost Asians by 70 percent. I know of no group that is more entrepreneurial, harder-working and whatever. You know why? You know why Asians didn’t … because they believe Republicans don’t like minorities. ”
This is a line that the left in the United Kingdom are trying to sell against conservatives. It’s something we have to learn to handle so that it can’t be effectively used against us.
2. In the USA ” …— 70 percent of the country is against the political class, from left to right. They believe that we do not have government operating with the consent of the people. Three quarters believe that. Eighty-some percent believe the system is rigged, either by Wall Street, the unions, special interests — that goes from left to right.”
This could also be said of the United Kingdom with a couple of adjustments and is something we have to use as a weapon against the left-liberals, and we do that partly by staying outside the political class and tarring the left with the establishment brush.
Mafleur (21:45)
Breitbart must be spinning in his grave; thankfully his work survives and continues via proxies.
But I noted tonight that even Fox News are tiring of the Benghazi story and just spinning the plate half-heartedly. What with Sandy Frankenstorm, now a protracted Thanksgiving already morphing into Christmas, the impetus for impeachment is almost spent. All the best of the Fox terriers are still on holiday. Looks to me that Obama has already been issued with the get-out card. Hoi polloi in the US just DGAS, it seems – sadly. The fiscal cliff is flavour of the month and is sucking all the oxygen from the rest of the news.
Obama may have boxed himself in with the Susan Rice pick for SoS to replace the Clintoness, having put on a display of faux-indignation at the first and now infamous ‘meet the press’ session after the rigged election. I suppose the consolation is that the Heinz gigolo will be disappointed, as he obviously thought he was a shoo in.
Four more years of this fuckin’ circus – then probably even worse. Little we can do, I’m afraid, except TTP and lampoon the bastards daily. It’s the only acid we have to eat into their bullet proof carapaces.
Hexhamgeezer @ 19.59
Footnote to Pat Condell’s clip:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/hamas-tv-airs-death-israel-music-video-day-after-agreeing-ceasefire_663954.html
Hexhamgeezer
November 25th, 2012 – 19:59
Thanks for the heads up on the latest Condell exposition. One of his finest so far.
Won’t be seeing him any time soon on Newsnight, I suppose? There’s an atheist you can warm to, surely Peter? He’s testing the crank ‘hate’ legislation to destruction, isn’t he? I will drag myself up to London for the trial if they eventually nick him. Now that would be worth penetrating the M25 circle to witness.
Fuck Fox! Melanie is keeping up the pressure, anyway:
http://melaniephillips.com/real-news-bulletin-about-the-middle-east
Viagravated assault:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3691278/.html#ixzz2DEyefmg9
How could you be so volga, Olga?
Frank P @ 02.04
A July 2011 piece – Ah yes, just the kind of item one stumbles across by accident in the early hours of the morning when researching a serious post on Benghazi….
Frank P @ 01.46
“Question of the moment, of course, is whether Obama knew Morsi was about to do this before Hillary Clinton anointed Morsi as Keeper of the Hamas Ceasefire.” (Melanie P)
Perhaps Congress should ask cute Huma Abedin, as Obama is still gathering all the facts, etc. and does the Congress still ask the president anything nowadays which might embarrass?
http://askmarion.wordpress.com/2012/07/27/great-news-clinton-aide-huma-abedin-tied-directly-to-muslim-brotherhood-and-the-godfather-of-al-qaeda-post-911/
I think it is great that Malfleur is posting some arguments that need to have counter-arguments prepared. As Mr. Boot says, the problem with conservatism is that the answers to questions are often complicated. They are. But we should still be able to explain a conservative position in enough letters to fit into a tweet.
Malfleur, check your yahoo account. I have sent you an email about the Telegraph.
Peter from Maidstone @ 08.12
As Paul Johnson has just published a book on Charles Darwin, which I should of course buy rather than awaiting its appearance in my local second hand bookshop…, immediate questions of interest which might be put to him as a practising Roman Catholic would turn, I think, on how he sees the connection between Darwin’s theory of evolution, and later commentaries on it) and the teachings of the Church? The impression of that viewpoint on his thinking as a conservative would also be stimulating and very welcome, if there were any chance of his responding to an approach from you.
Having watched Theodore Dalrymple in debate on the legalisation of drugs, I don’t think he shrinks from practical solutions to what are underpinned by philosophical questions and the same is probably true of Mr. Boot. Mr. Johnson will certainly have his ideas on what is to be done. I hope there will be an opportunity to ask those who have kindly agreed to talk to you to attempt to synthesise philosophy and practice in showing a way, if any, out of our current mess.
Peter from Maidstone @ 08.20
Thanks. I will.
So, the Bullingdon boy is going to ratchet up the price of booze for the lower orders, after all we can not have everyone chucking the china around and puking in the street. What is chic for the few becomes posativly vulgar when practised by the many ,and we must not allow that, must we? It is so patently obvious the over-promoted pillock is out of his deapth, but why must it always be we who pay the price. Having got that off my chest I am off for a couple of fags and a G&T.
This is why Cameron has been keeping quiet about Rotherham:-
http://ukinindia.fco.gov.uk/en/news/?view=PressR&id=22609209
He was promoting Common Purpose in India and is undoubtedly a graduate. That explains his many nanny-like pronouncements.
Well Wisher 12.15
I just tried to post that link on The Spectator, which I headlined with: COMMON PURPOSE ALERT / CAMERON, and surprise surprise, it was pulled immediately.
Anyone else care to have a go?
Malfleur (03:07)
Yes you are quite right in fact, despite your impudent oblique inference; I should have given due attribution to Gerard Vanderleun of the American Digest blog who featured it on his side lines, which I visit daily because of its melange of tit bits (ahem) garnered by him on every subject under the sun – including, as you suggest, Benghazi and other iniquities of the current POTUS. I see one of his commenters has pointed out the historical provenance that you mention. Not so much Chinese whispers, but soviet whispers, perhaps? A made up yarn, no doubt, but amusing enough to lighten the mood a little in these dark and desperate days? 🙂
Your (03:21) link is a cracker; many thanks for that. I shall ‘Ask Marion’ often, as she seems to have lots of answers. I suppose ‘she’ could be ‘he’ – John Wayne’s real name was Marion Robert Morrison, wasn’t it? One of those names, like Hilary, that could make same sex marriage more acceptable I suppose, but I doubt John Wayne would have approved of that societal development. You never know with Hollywood types, though. Remember when Rock Hudson was considered macho in post-war fantasy land?
Further to my post at 12.51, this link has reappeared on The Speccie under the alcohol pricing comment.
I’ve added the link twice as well IRSIHBOY. It seems very important. Is the DM looking into it?
Malfleur 26 Nov. 00:57 –
You said that you are still looking a for a substitute for the DT, inadequate as it often is.
So am I. I doubt this newspaper will serve, but this report in it is nonetheless of some interest –
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/1126/breaking48.html
So booze is now to be taxed to hell and back, not that it is not already. There are plenty of laws in place to addresss disorderly behaviour , all that is missing is the guts to apply them, and while we are on the subject, the Brits have always been a riotous mob of yobs. As a parting shot I would ask if these new hikes will apply in the tax free bars of the Palace of Westminster and the question should be repeated until we get an answer.
Back from Africa to see an astonishing result in Rotherham.
Wait for the spin and bollox, but the facts are relatively clear and simple. Labour won, but with a huge reduction in votes. UKIP second, effectively from nowhere, another bunch of socialists came third with policies (with one major exception) both to the left of Labour and to the right of the Tories.
All the other wankers came nowhere.
Whilst the Tories might beat a path to UKIP’s door, UKIP might reasonably consider courting Mr Griffin – the Nationalist vote is badly split, added to UKIP, that grouping might just be enough to take the lead in 2015.
If UKIP go down the road of aligning themselves with a Cameron-less Tory party, they must make a root-and-branch review of the postal voting system a prerequisite – take this away and Labour are nothing, their corrupt mismanagement of this system and its abuse by the alien hordes in our midst must be stopped.