This is the Coffee House Wall for this week. I won’t say that it is your chance to communicate with us, as we are all in this together. It is, nevertheless, the Conservative Blog post that has no particular theme, and where everything is on topic. Let’s just remember that we want to avoid ad hominem attacks on others. We don’t want to engage with trolls. We want to moderate our language ourselves as responsible and mature adults, choosing to use fruity language only where it is necessary. This is our opportunity to show what the Spectator Coffee House Wall could have been like.
This quite the best, most accurate and succinct comment about Lord Black that I have yet read –
http://www.nysun.com/editorials/americas-loss/87814/
The socialist Francois Hollande, en route to meet Angel Merkel, had to turn back after his plane was hit by lightning. One wonders whether Marine Le Pen called upon the ancient god Odin to wreck the plans of this little man.
Anne Wotana Kaye 1 – what plans? do you know what plans Hollande has? last I heard he was expected to rupture the franco-german bond with calls for high spending, something which I think Marine (the FN is after all a socialist party, like the BNP) would be OK with… if anything the lightning would be the work of Carla, who now needs a new powerful trophy man on her arm since the midget with the dodgy ticker is out of politics…
Dean Street
May 15th, 2012 – 18:02
Very witty, Dean! But seriously, I don’t believe Marine is a socialist. The BNP is not really supported by people with an especially high calibre of intellectual ability, or indeed common intelligence. If it were, I think with the sell-out of this country, and the growing control of it by alien cultures, the BNP would have won the last election.
AWK — I don’t believe Marine’s a socialist, either.
AWK –
While I can understand that you lean towards supporting people of high calibre of intellectual ability (I do too), I suggest that we should also be very much aware that while it can be very beneficial (as in the case of Margaret Thatcher) it can also be extremely dangerous (as in the case of the widespread infestation of our universities by leftists and liberals).
For that reason, I believe that we should also give at least equal weight to patriotism and common sense.
The BNP may not have been blessed by the inclusion of people of Enoch Powell’s intellect, but I should have thought that their long standing grasp of the evils of multiculturalism, of unrestricted immigration, and of the ruthless ambitions of Islam – and their steadfast opposition to them – are a clear demonstration that they not only have have common intelligence (or common sense if you want to call it that) but also that they have the best interests of the British people firmly at heart?
Today yetanothermuslimtakeawayowner is jailed, for 15 years this time , in Carlisle for underage sex and pimping of white girls for his chums. Once again, race was not an issue and it was probably the girls fault anyway. Once again the police and ‘caring professions’ did a fine job in making sure unsubstantiated racially motivated accusations by these girls were ignored.
In a radical departure the reptile is a Bangladeshi – so hats off to the Pakistani community, and their friends in the police and politics for proving that predatory gangland paedophilia is NOT restricted to them.
Pardon me if I don’t celebrate the diverse nature of these gangs.
It would be very interesting to know what proportion of these offenders are married to first cousins. Is it above the +/-50% that is normal for this rich and diverse section of the population?
Herbert Thornton – Superb! Many thanks for posting this. The tragedy of the malice that motivated whatwas done to Lord Black is that it worked for so long and so impermeably. I pray that this malfeasance will now be righted and that those who perpetrated it, and those who were allies in this malice will get a comeuppance we can all applaud.
Herbert Thornton
May 15th, 2012 – 18:58
Herbert, over the years, I hve usually been in accord with your views. Now, however, I really do not know. Are the BNP genuinely not a socialist movement? I honestly cannot say. Enoch Powell was a mn whom we were fortunate to see as such men do not appear frequently on the political scene. Nick Griffin is trying to fill his list with q diverse group which doesn’t impress me, nor do the people grouped round him.
Hexhamgeezer
May 15th, 2012 – 19:05
Brilliant, but tragic posting. Married to first cousins? Probably married to their brothers, fathers or
uncles to preserve the family jewels.
AWK,
Like you, I can’t say whether the BNP is or isn’t really a socialist movement. I’m certainly not a socialist, but I well remember that when I was in my mid twenties (i.e.around 1955) I encountered several Labour politicians who were possessed of common sense. Just as one example I recall a Town Council meeting where one of the younger Labour members was declaring that Insurance Companies should be compelled to pay out much more money to claimants.
An older Labour Alderman immediately jumped up and rebuked him. “Don’t be daft lad. They can’t pay out more money than they take in. If they do, they’ll soon be in the soup.”
When it comes to today’s BNP they may or may not espouse some socialist policies, but the question I have is – does it matter? Who else is there who is steadfastly determined to oppose and remedy multiculturalism, immigration, political correctness and the growing presence of, and threat posed by, Islam? Certainly not the Conservative, Liberal or Labour politicians. I believe that the extreme dangers we are facing are far more important than worrying about whether or not the BNP are socialists.
Herbert Thornton
“I believe that the extreme dangers we are facing are far more important than worrying about whether or not the BNP are socialists.”
And yet it was the socialists who have landed us in this mire. In the 30s seemingly sane and intelligent Germans supported Hitler to avoid the Bolshevik peril. In the end it was two very similar faces on the same coin.
AWK,
What you say about Hitler and the Bolsheviks being two faces of the same coin is true, but it doesn’t persuade me to a belief that the BNP are indistinguishable from Hitler. Two other men of the same era and supposedly of similar political persuasion – General Franco and Doctor Salazar – were markedly distinguishable from the two monsters who were Hitler and Stalin.
I’m reminded that Deng Xiao Ping once said something like this – “It doesn’t matter whether it’s a Socialist cat or a Capitalist cat. What matters is – Does it catch mice?
I regard the BNP in a similar way. Our Labour, Liberal and Conservative politicians are hell bent on allowing the degredation and destruction of Britain to continue. The BNP are (in my opinion) unlikely to be worse and on balance are likely to be better.
Herbert, I don’t compare the BNP to Hitler nor to Stalin, but I still feel uneasy about them. I think I would give UKIP a chance, as I certainly would never again vote Conservative after this betrayal they have brought down upon us with that idiot Cameron.
Much wind and piss about the whether the BNP are socialists or not, yet nobody bothers to visit the BNP website and seek their odious views.
Have a look. They are almost indivisible from old Labour.
They’re protectionists (.. the BNP calls for the selective exclusion of foreign-made goods from British markets and the reduction of foreign imports. We will ensure that our manufactured goods are, wherever possible, produced in British factories, employing British workers.)
Nationalisers (.. the BNP will restore our economy and land to British ownership and will take active steps to break up the socially, economically and politically damaging monopolies now being established by the supermarket giants.)
and believe the Workers can run things better (.. a BNP government will seek to give British workers a stake in the success and prosperity of the enterprises whose profits their labour creates.)
In a nutshell, on economics :-
– The nurturing and encouragement of new and existing British industries;
– The protection of British companies from unfair foreign imports;
– The promotion of domestic competition;
– Increased taxes on companies which outsource work abroad;
– The reintroduction of the married man’s allowance;
– The raising of the inheritance tax threshold to £1 million;
– The encouragement of savings, investment, worker share-ownership and profit-sharing;
– Halving council tax by centralising education costs and eliminating multiculturalism spending and unnecessary bureaucracy;
– The renationalisation of monopoly utilities and services, compensating only individual investors and pension funds. Privatising monopolies does not benefit either the consumer or the country. All that happens is the ‘family silver’ is sold off and monopoly utilities and services are asset-stripped, often by foreign competitors.
Does anybody actually believe Milliband, Balls, Skinner etc believe any different? No wonder ‘the left’ hate the BNP – they’re after their (white) votes!
Hexamgeezer – yes, indeed! Turbans off, 72 virgins and rivers of wine to the pakis who probably are, indeed, “married” to their first cousins who had their clitorises sliced off on the kitchen table! And will produce babies that will be passengers on the British … real British … NHS contributors for life!
I think the BNP are essentially our side but coming from a different direction. Besides, enemy of my enemy is my friend.
If The Daily Mail doesn’t stop its plug ignorant usage of the term “First Lady” to describe anyone married to a PM or President, I may have to write something really mean. The term First Lady is a real, funded, official position with a budget, offices, staff. It DOES NOT MEAN THE WIFE OF AN ELECTED EUROPEAN HEAD OF GOVERNMENT. She has no official role. She is Mrs Whatever. That is all.
The American First Lady, a real job, is whomever the US president nominates for the job. The post is not always occupied by a president’s wife. France has no First Lady. Britain has no First Lady. It is so embarrassing to see the French and Brits slithering around on the floor trying to be American. Only the US has a First Lady. It is a real job. Daily Mail subs pleas note.
For who would bear the whips and scorns of Frank
David Ossitt’s wrongs, Peter Maidstone’s cotumely
The pangs of despised Hugh, Malfleur’s delay
The insolence of Ostrich, and the spurns
That patient merit of th’ unworthy takes
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bear Strapworld. Who woul Austin bear
To grunt and sweat under Verity’s life
But that the dread of Anne Wotana on the hearth
The undiscovered country, from whose bourne
Peter from Maidstone returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to Noa that we know not of
Meanwhile Nicholas “jumped in the foaming ocean and abandoned ship”
Fergus Pickering
May 16th, 2012 – 07:34
You are a card! Many thanks for “To Pee or Not to Pee” – started my day with a smile.
http://www.reformsection5.org.uk/
Please support this campaign.
Well-wisher
Your link to David Davis – good stuff; and should be taken on board at the modest, provincial level of blogsites such as this one, where people tend to get their knickers in a twist over insults and invoke the grand sounding no-no of “ad hominem attacks” as the basis for trying to ban them. Casting insults as “ad hominem”, which is strictly speaking a category of rhetorical argument, is only another face of the politically correct who would have us accept that no one must be offended. That is the short road that the PC people want us to take to saying nothing at all which disagrees with them, otherwise they will feel offended, and we will have committed the crime of offending them. for which we must be punished, etc., etc.
Down with PC! Viva the insult!
Does anyone have suggestions for the name of a new polling site which will strive to ask the questions that ordinary people are asking, and will do so in an honest and transparent manner.
The aim is to use polling as a means of democratic accountability, not as a means of party political advantage.
Well-wisher … if you think people are arsed to go to a link that some stranger has recommended, without a clue what it’s about, you are naive. There are tens of millions of links on the internet. People only go to links when they are recommended by someone whose judgement they respect, or if the subject is obvious and is one of their interests.
My guess, had it not been for Malfleur’s follow-up description, not a single person was arsed to go to your mystery link. I just don’t understand people who think the power of their personality is enough to persuade strangers to go to mystery links.
Peter from Maidstone
I support Well-wisher, and ignore the vulgar remarks of another supporter here, our Bossy Boots newcomer who labels us as a “modest, provincial level of blogsites such as this one, where people tend to get their knickers in a twist”. I should imagine that Bossy Boots is typical case of Fur Coat and No Knickers, so its Knickers will never be in a twist!
P from M … Vox Populi?
In Your Opinion
Straigt from The Heart of The Heart of The Matter
Verity I stand corrected, thank you. I should have explained what the link was when I posted it here but my intention was modest and provincial and definitely not predicated on any power of personality. Unfortunately my knickers are often as twisted as my endeavours are vexed but seldom is that the result of ad hominem attacks or even really bad poetry. I wish you well. Please mind the Doors on carriage 3.
Well-wisher 16th, – 15:10
“Please mind the Doors on carriage 3”
and Showaddywaddy in carriage 4.
Unfortunately inyouropinion and inmyopinion are all pretty much taken. So is voxpopuli.
thenationspeaks.co.uk is available?
Awk – Maybe it’s fur coat and no knockers and she always felt at a distanvantage. Or perhaps it’s a Texan with, as they say in Texas, all hat and no cattle.
raiseyourvoice?
speakup?
voiceanopinion?
hearme?
peoplespeak?
peoplesvoice?
becounted?
voicecount?
givevoice?
beheard?
truepoll?
standup?
handsup?
standandbecounted?
ballotbullet?
pollcry?
freepoll?
(Sorry, it must be the coffee.)
Peter
thenationspeaks sounds ok to me.
Poll-Pot?
Poll-Ari?
Poll-Fax?
Poll The Other One?
Push Me Poll You?
Poll-E-Theme?
Poll, Boys, Poll?
No, intermittent earthbound bird, carriage 4 is Love Me Two Times!
YouSaid?
Tele-poll?
Inter-poll?
Asking-U
Asking me, asking you. Ah Ha!
An outstanding piece from Mark Steyn about Geert Wilders and his new book “Marked for Death: Islam’s War Against the West and Me”
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/299725/spirit-geert-wilders-mark-steyn?pg=1
Thanks, EC. As always, Steyn nails it with exquisite precision. Strange that no one else does.
EC
On a more modest level in “the War”, this site does not seem to have recovered from being hacked and frozen by islamists a few short weeks back.
EC
These two sentences seemed to me to sum up the essence of the problem:
“The British novelist Martin Amis asked Tony Blair if, at meetings with his fellow prime ministers, the Continental demographic picture was part of the “European conversation.” Mr. Blair replied, with disarming honesty, “It’s a subterranean conversation” — i.e., the fellows who got us into this mess can’t figure out a way to talk about it in public, other than in the smiley-face banalities of an ever more shopworn cultural relativism.”
Malfleur, I think that site visitors have stayed steady at 500-600 a day, and we are seeing page views of 60,000+ a month. The site was only down for about 40 minutes so I am not sure what lasting affect you think the outage had.
‘Maybe it’s fur coat and no knockers [sic]’
Who knows? Stranger things have happened.
Well-wisher 16th, – 18:48
“No, intermittent earthbound bird, carriage 4 is Love Me Two Times!”
Then carriage 2 is Mud? Or is it Queen?
I think I shall assume that I will use the name thenationspeaks, and will start developing a website and associated functionality. The key will be getting sufficient numbers of British people to participate. I would like to be polling as many people as possible not the bare minimum. I am particularly interested in the majority who did not vote in the recent elections, and in getting behind the rather pointless polling of ‘who would you vote for’, as if many people are satisfied with any of the parties.
There was an old pervert called Fergus
Whose kink was to dress up in burqas
And his nubile habibi
Was a schoolgirl called Phoebe
Who wrote poems calculated to irk us
Just announced that the Ratko Mladic trial has been stopped due to prosecution errors. Obviously this is just a temporary measure. Interesting how muslim atrocities get hardly any publicity, but us living in Britain should hardly be surprised, since we have become familiar with their ways. Of course terrible things were done on both sides, equally by the muslims, whatever they may claim. War is not a pretty thing, Krieg ist Krieg und Schnapps ist Schnapps.
Peter from Maidstone @ 08:19
My comment was based on an impression that the number of comments and commenters was down since the islamists attack. It may be that the quality of comments has deteriorated since then. I have to admit though that I have not had time to check back and even if so the attack is not something that can demonstrably be linked to an effect. I am therefore probably full of crap. I don’t however think that counting the number of hits is a proper indication. I will check back when I have a few moments.
“Then carriage 2 is Mud? Or is it Queen?”
No, carriage 2 is ‘Light My Fire’.
Remember, grasshopper, that the Doors are both a band and an album – in this case greatest hits. Thus it will become apparent to the enquiring mind why the Mexican Spitfire brings to mind carriage 3.
Indeed, AWK, war is not a pretty thing and some have gloried in its dangers, but please don’t compare that Balkans rabble to soldiers or their nasty atrocities to war.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKnRLUqynds
Sound to be turned up and all windows opened.
Fergus P was all at sea when it came to writing couplets,
Phoebe Flood was twice as good but never won any plaudits.
Well-wisher
May 17th, 2012 – 12:20
“Then carriage 2 is Mud? Or is it Queen?”
No, carriage 2 is ‘Light My Fire’.
Indeed, AWK, war is not a pretty thing and some have gloried in its dangers, but please don’t compare that Balkans rabble to soldiers or their nasty atrocities to war.
==========e t==========================================
No glory in war, and I do hope that you consider ALL the participants as ‘rabble’ and not just the Serbs. Ever since that abortion, the First World War, the Balkans have been a place of wild disorder. at least the Austro-Hungarian Empire kept them in order.
In response to The Mail headline that there is one tip-off of an illegal every six minutes, here is a reader’s letter:
“USE A PUBLIC FUNDED CAHARITY TO SET UP A PRIVATE SECURITY FRIM TO ROUND UP ILLEGALS AND HOLD THEM FOR PROCESSING.
– peter, create jobs in securtiy GB, 17/5/2012 13:04
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2145556/One-tip-minutes-illegal-immigrants-database.html#ixzz1v8KS0YwB
Good suggestion, but given the intentional laxity of the government’s handling of Britain being swamped with illegal immigrants (note to Dave … “illegal” means against the law. Criminal.),
I suggest vigillante action. Rather than “rounding up illegal immigrants and holding them for process”, why not round them up and dispose of them? As in, put them in large boats and tip them out at the three mile limit, so they are in international waters. We could hire that Italian cruise ship captain to run it. That way, none of them would stand a chance.
PS – This suggestion might also reinvigorate our fishing industry by providing food for our over-fished waters! Win-win!
Verity
May 17th, 2012 – 14:46
Mervyn King’s ‘turbulent waters’! 🙂
When I read that Rebekah Brooks was going to be prosecuted, I sensed what seemed (to me) to be a whiff of a prospect that it was not going to be quite so straightforward as most prosecutions.
I make no claim to be in the least psychic, but after reading this it has begun to seem (again to me) that the news of the World Saga is a long way from over and that we are going to be considerably entertained, in the sense of – whatever will be revealed next? I was wondering what information Rebekah Brooks might reveal about David Cameron, but this is an unexpected new turn.
Are we going to be able to watch, with fascination, what is liable to happen when you beat hornets’ nests with a stick?
OOPS – I forgot to include the URL –
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/phone-hacking/9273276/Phone-hacking-Rebekah-Brooks-could-challenge-charging-decision-because-prosecutor-was-victim-of-tabloid-sting.html
What on earth happened to this thread today?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2146089/Seven-snubs-Cameron–revenge-Frances-new-leader-ahead-face-face-talks.html
“Marat we’re marching on behind Napoleon”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcJKxrDczSo&feature=related
“Are we going to be able to watch, with fascination, what is liable to happen when you beat hornets’ nests with a stick?”
Yes, I think so. I also think the CPS is going to be exposed by this, as a questionable extension of the political machinery that has gradually seen the rule of law eroded and replaced by the political rule of law.
The DPP is appointed by the Attorney General and I do not understand why the AG Dominic Grieve did not appoint a new DPP when the coalition came to power as the current incumbent Keir Starmer QC is a creature of New Labour who is “generally seen as supportive of the Labour Party”.
In 2009:-
“Starmer also decided not to reopen the News of the World phone-tapping case following allegations made in this paper that its illegal surveillance operations went beyond its disgraced royal editor Clive Goodman, who was jailed in 2007 for plotting to intercept phone messages from members of the royal family. “I did get a review off the ground,” he says. “We looked at it and we formed the view that what was done at the time was the appropriate thing, and that it wouldn’t now be the right course to prosecute anybody.” But he does not rule out a case being brought at some point. “I keep an open mind. It might move on and develop if Guardian journalists or anybody else show us other stuff. What I don’t want to do is say, ‘We looked at that, we’re not going to look at it again.'””
Rebekah Brooks has already shown a readiness to attack in her defence and to go after the CPS. She is the scapegoat for a largely left-wing driven attack against the relationship of the Conservatives with Murdoch which seems so far to have largely forgotten the years 1997-2010 except with the odd platitude. This development – her prosecution – might bring out more about the cosy but unhealthy relationship of New Labour, their senior police stooges and the left-lawyer stuffed CPS (Starmer was an advisor to ACPO).
I don’t like her but I wish her well. My enemy’s enemy is my friend.
I meant to conclude by observing it is curious that Starmer has largely escaped adverse comment about his 2009 decision (when Labour were in power) but now the CPS is taking action to pursue an old case seen as damaging to Cameron and the Conservatives. Is it too fanciful to believe that the hiatus was deliberate, that the can of worms was opened at a time when the least damage would be done to New Labour, under whose watch the events mainly occurred, and the most damage done to the “Tory-led coalition”?
Well-wisher
May 18th, 2012 – 09:11
Agree!
Do you really want to see what Labour-suck ups the CPS really are?
Hold your noses and read this:-
http://www.simondarby.net/2012/05/fridays-collective-snub.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2145687/Non-white-births-outnumber-white-Ethnic-minorities-surpasses-whites-US-time.html
Duh. NSS! The same will happen in Britain with all the high-breeder islamic swill they’ve let through … I think through malice. The problem will come, over the next 10 or 15 years when the incomers have the numbers to outvote the owners of the countries.
Hexhamgeezer
“In a radical departure the reptile is a Bangladeshi”
Lest we forget ‘Bangladesh’ was originaly; at the partition of India, East Pakistan.
Clear Memories
“Much wind and piss about the whether the BNP are socialists or not, yet nobody bothers to visit the BNP website and seek their odious views.”
To refer to other posters opinions and comments as ‘Much wind and piss’ is not very kind in fact I think it impertinent.
To follow this unnecessary insolence with the unfounded assumption that “nobody bothers to visit the BNP website and seek their odious views.” is just wrong.
By this you are inferring that you are in some way superior to others who post here, whilst simultaneously providing the proof that you are not, by adding; when referring to the BNP the much misused cliché ‘their odious views’.
Anne Wotana Kaye 1
“Just announced that the Ratko Mladic trial has been stopped due to prosecution errors”
Hello Anne, I heard this on radio4 yesterday whilst driving to an appointment, and yet later on my return journey the news was given a very different twist, much mention of how the nasty man had authorised these killings but no more mention of the fact that the prosecuting council were using information that had not been disclosed to the defence council, nor that because of this fact the trial had to be stopped.
It stinks of BBC bias.
David Ossitt
May 18th, 2012 – 20:09
Hello David,
BBC bias is awful, I’d use stronger words but they would be very rude!
That wretch Abu Qatar is now stating that he is going to apply for bail. In the meantime, we are all supporting him and his stinking family in the lap of luxury.
Another piece of misery – why doesn’t the sun really shine? It will soon be glorious June!
David Ossitt
May 18th, 2012 – 19:31
Indeed, Sir,
I meant radical as in not radical at all, or more of he same.
Which reminds me, at some point I must put ‘pen to paper’ regarding our long years living in one of the cradles of the British Jihad (Walthamstow).
David – I chose the phrase ‘wind and piss’ to suggest some were commenting on the basis of prejudice and hearsay and I stand by that, we are all guilty of that on occasion. I further wished to emphasise the point that the MSM and DTP are, for whatever reason, distorting the true political nature of anti-immigration parties, in that, in virtually all their tenets, with the exception of immigration, they are the Labour Party in another guise.
And as for being impertinent, well, I think that forms a healthy part of debate.
I see my old pal Lady Euro has some Spaghetti Western takes on the fiasco that is the Eurozone…
http://www.onetwo.dsl.pipex.com/LadyEuro/
Clear Memories 23:56, for wind and piss, plus bending over and farting in the face of the legitimate (as opposed to the illegal “immigrant”) electorate, nobody can ever top Tony Blair and his lovely wife Cherie, Gordon Brown and his Twitter-mad wife Wossname, and the lovely Boy Mandelson.
AWK – “That wretch Abu Qatar is now stating that he is going to apply for bail. In the meantime, we are all supporting him and his stinking family in the lap of luxury.”
It’s a deliberate insult designed to debilitate. There is nothing as grotesque on Planet Earth as a lefty with power.
What baffles me is, why does not the right use its power (well, Maggie did), but they seem to appear to fear being seen as being “cruel” or whatever names te left chooses to call them. They never seem to say, “We are upholding the laws that were passed in our democratically elected Parliament, so pipe down, creep.”
“Breitbart News has obtained a promotional booklet produced in 1991 by Barack Obama’s then-literary agency, Acton & Dystel, which touts Obama as “born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia and Hawaii.” ” (Breitbart News)
Tim Stanley rehearses the story here in the DT:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100158834/obama-used-to-be-a-kenyan/
It’s great to know that, as we head into next week’s financial, economic, political and cultural crisis, we have such sterling leaders
Clear Memories says that the BNP has “odious views”. To the extent that they may resemble the views of Old Labour, some of them may be mistaken, but most of them are – at least – less harmful than the destructive policies of the three current main parties. Consequently, his use of the word “odious” mystifies me.
I see no reference to the construction of Nazi-like gas chambers to exterminate anybody, nor any proposals to carry out WW2 Japanese style medical experiments on human beings, nor any exhortation to fly air liners into skyscrapers to perpetrate mass murder, nor any policy to reduce women to the status of genitally mutilated chattels, nor to encourage stoning people to death for apostasy, to name only some of the unchanging aims of Islam – and I don’t for a moment believe or even imagine that the BNP are quietly planning similar atrocities.
I think it would make for more rational discussion if Clear Memories would explain exactly why he uses the word “odious” to describe the BNP.
Difficult one Herbert, but I’ll try, although I don’t disagree with the bulk of your post.
Firstly, I find the very basic tenets of socialism odious and objectionable in the extreme. Surely, only the most narrow-minded would seek to claim that socialism has worked anywhere on the planet without the need for increasing infringements on human rights and liberties? Sticking strictly to the dictionary definition of odious – “extremely unpleasant, repulsive” then I would contend that, like all socialists, they fit that description.
As examples, I find Abbotts casual racism against white people odious, Livingstone’s anti-semitism odious, the silence of the Labour party harpies on Islam’s treatment of women odious but I find their concerted attacks on the BNP worse than odious, they are hypocritical because, with the exception of immigration and, perhaps the readoption of the death penalty, these people believe the same things as Nick Griffin.
I would contend your second paragraph is a red herring – the BNP is neither proposing nor, as far as I know, planning any of these things. Nor are any of the points you raise in this paragraph in any way justifiable or acceptable. Equally, none of them apply to the BNP.
Perhaps one is looking to history and the way socialism ends up finding unpleasant and oppressive ways of seeking to reach its ends.
The fight against political correctness and Plod:
“Tyrone Wood recently had to take down a photograph of a naked woman and a swan from the wall of his Mayfair art gallery after a police officer complained that it appeared to “condone bestiality”.” (Tim Walker – DT)
You mean like this?:
http://www.leonardoda-vinci.org/265415/Leda-and-the-Swan-1505-10-large.jpg
Oh, that’s all right then. Better things to do in London perhaps, Plod?
So the Euro Army is high on President Hollande’s agenda for talks with David Cameron.
Now I wonder who would end up running that if anybody signed up to it…?
Is there an offence of “condoning bestiality”?
Are we really entering an age where how something is construed rather than what was intended is what makes it criminal? And where that can even be extended to what might be construed? Are we going to see offences like “Failing to condone homosexuality”?
“I asked the defendant whether he supported gay marriage, your honour, but he refused to answer. I therefore charged him with failing to condone homosexuality and being homophobic.”
In China, during Mao’s Cultural Revolution this would have been called being counter-revolutionary.
“The defendant was standing outside the bank your honour and I thought he looked as though he was thinking about robbing it. So I nicked him.”
This country is beginning to stink to high heaven. Heaven help us.
Clear Memories –
Despite what you say about socialism being odious – which is of course true – it seems to me that the use of it in the context of your 16 May 00:05 posting gave the impression of rating the BNP as so wicked that rather than support them, it is better to continue to support the status quo.
I on the contrary believe that the Islamic tide has penetrated so much deeper and massively into our civilisation than it managed to do when it either occupied Spain or reached the gates of Vienna, that continuing to support the status quo is actually suicidal. Better the BNP than that.
Come off it, the BNP do more harm than good. They are part of the reason why a grown-up debate about immigration is impossible. It is too easy for them to be depicted in the media as racist saddos and losers and then they have to spend all their time trying to refute that before they can get any kind of acceptable message across. And what happens when anyone else comments against immigration or muslim activism? They are immediately accused of supporting the BNP. Their leader was chewed up on QT. Not as clever as Wilders or as media savvy. Besides, at the end of the day they are national socialists. Unite Against Fascism are just as odious but look at the difference in media coverage between the two.
You keep commenting about the BNP. Are you a member? Why not come out and argue on that basis and for what they stand for directly rather than pussy-footing around?
Clear Memories … Firstly, anyone who says “firstly” is a pretentious prick. I say this with compassion.
Diane Lardarse is not a racists. I do not believe for one minute that she thinks she as been held back because she is of the Negroid persuasion. I think she knows that that has been a major factor in her advancement. God knows, it wasn’t talent, wit or principle.
Incidentally, “homophobic” is one of that great academic, Peter Tatchell’s, little gems. Homo is a Greek prefix meaning “the same”. A homogenous population is what Britain and the Europea countries used to have. It has absolutely nothing to do with sex. His favourite word, homopobic, would just mean “fear of the same”.
Your mistakes aside, I would support Herbert Thornton that the BNP is to be preferred to to the murderous fascism of islam. But why choose between them? Why not just outlaw islam as a murderous cult?
Well Wisher … again, you seem uinable to separate the jumble of your thougts from what is usable and realistic to what has no connection with reality. You say Nick Griffin is “not as clever as Wilders”. This is hardly a killer accusation. Few people are as clever as Wilders. Nor such effective media performers. Yet this is all you can say against Nick Griffith. No arguments against his points. Just that he is not as clever as Mr Wilders. Most of us aren’t as clever as Mr Wilders.
Here’s another sly, teenage comment from Well Wisher (and we all wish you were down a well) … “You keep commenting about the BNP. Are you a member? Why not come out and argue on that basis and for what they stand for directly rather than pussy-footing around?”
Why, because someone bangs on about the BNP would that person be assumed to be a member? Why the faux clever accusation? I don’t like the priest in my small town in Mexico who has the impertinence to have had four speakers mounted on his church roof and broadcast (LOUD) droning sermons into the homes of all the people who had the impertienence to have had better things to do than wash up to church for his morning borning, ignorant sermon (I assume. It’s all in Spanish).
A lot of people, including Mexicans, bang on about this. This does’t mean we are a member of the church. It means we want him to STFU.
Further evidence that the man in the White house is a scum bag may be found at: http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/05/14/bombshell-al-qaeda-infiltrator-was-working-for-brits-not-cia-cover-blown-for-election-year-politics/
(H/T: http://www.britsattheirbest.com/)
Cameron and Obama had talks this morning whilst on a treadmill.
As far as I’m concerned they could have held them on the original Catherine Wheel.
inagist.com/all/203850073501728768/
Charles Moore’s contribution to showing the support which Britain received from the United States in the Falklands War and its relevance to the Romney candidacy can be found at:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/9274985/Britain-has-a-friend-in-Mitt-Romney-so-David-Cameron-should-get-to-know-him.html
Re the high level treadmill talks … why do people like obama and cameron advertise their vacuity with cutsie-poo, tricksie venues and think the voters will be impressed? What’s wrong with sitting down at a desk to discuss international matters? What’s next, high level, literally, serious discussions while skydiving?
How about deep talks while swimming with dolpins?
These moronic photo set-ups tell you everything you need to know about the superficiality and vacuity of David Scameron of HensArse Hall and Hussein Obama of … uh … Kenya? … Hawaii? … Indonesia …? uh …
I am becoming more and more curious. Our national survival, culture and way of life, not to mention the survival of our atheists or Hindus or Jews (and Jews especially) and the few of us who are still Christians, are in very great peril, as are the very lives of our descendants.
The peril is monstrous and menacingly obvious. It consists of the rapidly growing presence, and implacable ambitions, fanaticism and ruthlessness, of Islam.
That seems to me to be a very good reason for supporting any party that is clearly dedicated to the repulse of the peril. I consequently pointed out that the BNP (warts and all notwithstanding) are virtually the only, and certainly the most substantial of such parties.
Yet Well-wisher responds to this by writing –
“You keep commenting about the BNP. Are you a member? Why not come out and argue on that basis?”
By doing so, he is implying that I am a member of the BNP. If I were to respond in the same vein, I could do so by asking – is he is a Muslim or a convert to Islam and is he dedicated to jihad? But that would not be rational argument, but mud-slinging.
So, in the hope that it may help to make my stance clear I will cite Winston Churchill’s response to someboy who tried to denounce his policy of helping the Soviet Union after Hitler invaded it –
“If Hitler invaded Hell, I would at least try, the next time I stood up in the House of Commons, to make a favourable reference to the Devil.”
In the same way, I am not ashamed of making a favourable reference to the BNP.
And the nearer the situation gets to civil war – as it will if allowed to continue unchecked – the more certain it is that people will begin to make favourable references also to the National Front. Even, eventually, God help us, to Anders Breivik.
Herbert Thornton, Well Wisher is probably only telling us, ineptly, that he wishes he were down a well.
I am all for supporting anyone who will shovel the islamics out of civilised countries. I would also support vigilante action. Incidentally, Well Wisher seems to be very naive if he does not know that the BNF would make many, many concessisions in order to draw people from other parties in and get power within their reach. That’s politics.
Herbert Thornton
May 19th, 2012 – 22:03
Herbert, good posting. Ye, I am afraid I must repeat myself by stating that there will be no civil war, or even violent unrest from the bulk of the British native population, because they have become completely apathetic and cowed. Which other country would tolerate its daughters (even tarnished ones) to be handled, let alone raped and sold by pakistani swine? Regarding Breivik, I am still not convinced that he did his evil acts because he saw his country being swamped by socialists or aliens. All the victims were white native-born youth, and who knows what this evil young man ‘s ideology is? He could so easily be a supporter of islam, a dedicated Bolshevik, a strong opponent of the ‘extreme Right’. The Reichstag was destroyed by those who wanted to blame the communists, the horrors wrought in Norway could just as easily have been perpetrated by a communist who wished the Right to take the blame. Evil wicked minds are so convoluted, it is hard to judge them by normal standards.
No, Herbert, I am not a muslim, a convert to Islam or dedicated to jihad.
AWK – “Evil wicked minds are so convoluted, it is hard to judge them by normal standards.”
We should, however, judge them by normal standards and not degraded standards that accommodate them.
Verity
May 20th, 2012
Yes, we should not accomodate them when judging their crimes. Actually, I used the wrong word, ‘judge’ is too vague. I meant to say, we cannot assess them by normal standards, i.e. their behaviour bears nothing in common with the norm.We should certainly make o allowances for their vile crimes, and I regret the death penalty is not available.
I agree about the death penalty, AWK, and abolishing it was an act not merely of insanity and but abnormality. All of hiumankind enforced the death penalty throughout our history on earth. It was universal. What cosmic secret did the Left hold that assured them that the rest of the human race was wrong and the British socialists were right?
The question is rhetorical, needless to say.
There’s a little lad just been released after seven years in the chokey, convicted of murder. It has been decided that his conviction is ‘unsafe’.
It’s now emerged that there were faults in the prosecution, including but not limited to a failure to examine his mobile ‘phone, which has been in the possession of the police since he was arrested for the crime. Photographs on that ‘phone, bearing date/time information, make it clear that he could not have been at the scene of the murder. But, if it had happened in 1964, he’d have swung for it. Bit late to say, “Oops! sorry. Our mistake.”
I would love to be able to retain such a penalty for the scum convicted of all of the awful crimes we’ve heard about over the last 50 years, (not limited to murder, when we read last week of the crimes of grooming and rape of underage girls that have taken years to be exposed) so it is only its awful finality that prevents me supporting it.
“pour encourager les âutres” isn’t good enough.
Ostrich (occasionally)
Yes, whatever happened to “beyond a reasonable doubt” – or to reason for that matter?
I find it very comforting that DC is one of us, and that he watches football in his shrt-sleeves. Indeed this photo shows what ordinary, sensitive people all of our leaders are.
Peter, are you being serious or ironic? :=)
Yes, it’s always time to celebrate when an English team of mainly non English thugs thwarts a German (sorry, Bavarian!) team of mainly non German highly disciplined thugs after an 89th minute equaliser, and then goes on to beat them after an additional 30mins of thuggery followed by a penalty shootout. (*)
I thought that the Portugese referee and his assistants had a good game.
* In addition to Bayern’s misery, there was the added delight of knowing that would be a large number of frustrated Scotchmen after supporting “anybody but England.” 🙂
Is Barak yawning on that photo?
Thinking about Edvard Munch?
Or is he silently reliving the horror of witnessing some other penalty shootout? i.e. Team 6 vs Usama.
And there’s Dave, out front, out-acting everyone else, his outfit out-proling Obama (who, in comparison, looks refined and uderstated) … while Merkel and Co look liked heads of government. Dave’s ill-considered attempt to look like one of the yobs is successful, except …. no yob or illegal. immigtant is going to vote for someone from Eton. So, again, he loses. One more lauigable misudgement.
The Conservatives have to shovel him out stat. He will never win the vast illegal immigrant vote or the legal immigrant muslim vote or the indigenous middle class vote and no lifelong passenger on welfare is going to be fooled by a posh boy with his shirt sleeves rolled up trying to pull the wool over their eyes.
David David and John Redwood have to get this toxic twerp out.
I am sorry about the bad typing. The keys are sticking. Don’t know why.
Please tell me I am dreaming! From The Mail: “Mr Blair is expected to launch his comeback as he appears on a joint platform with Labour leader Ed Miliband in July at an event to celebrate the Olympics.
“The event could prove hugely divisive among Labour supporters, though Mr Blair is thought to believe that enough time has passed for people to have forgotten the disastrous effect of the Iraq war on his image and how he was humiliatingly forced from office by Gordon Brown.
“The move to also hire a public relations expert is proof that Mr Blair wants to be heard on a range of subjects.
“The spin doctor will also attempt to portray Mr Blair’s cash schemes – such as charging up to £300,000 for after-dinner speeches – in a more positive light.
“Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2147101/Tony-Blair-Former-PM-begin-political-comeback-Labour-advising-Obama-election-battle.html#ixzz1vPwYa4AA”
Tony Blair against David Cameron for leadership of Britain. Please someone tell me this is not being proposed.
I just went to the corner store for milk and received congratulations on the Chelsea win yesterday. They all know I’m from England, and there aren’t any Germans about, so I get the congratulations on England’s triumphs – except if it’s against Barcelona or Real Madrid.
They are football daft around here.
Anne Wotana Kaye 1
“Peter, are you being serious or ironic? :=)”
Might he be seriously ironic?
Verity, your post re Blair appearing at some Olympic celebration like the second coming is too horrible to contemplate. The pieces of the apocalypse are in place: England’s capital occupied by the IOC – an embryo world government – and Blair triumphant on a chariot of fire.
It reminds of what I believe is known among some religious cults as The Rapture.
Frank Sutton … OMG, you are right! I always felt there was something strange, if niot actually eerie, in the Blairs’ blind determination that Britain get the Olympics, although I felt all along that it was malice. I mean, France had it wrapped up and Blair and Cheriiiieeee are definitely not such patriots that they would have given a stuff one way or another. Yet they took a private plane to Singapore, where the Olympic Committee was currently troughing, and “somehow” persuaded them to change their judgement.
“Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm,” I thought at the time.
David Ossitt
May 20th, 2012 – 16:46
Anne Wotana Kaye 1
Might he be seriously ironic
Or ironically serious?
The week is closing out and still no word from Frank P, the absence of whose trenchant opinions and humour were noted and missed.
I have sent a card to his home addess hoping to hear that he is well.
This is an interesting comment from T.S Eliot. I know that not everyone will share his view of Christianity, but I appreciate his sense that we are trying some vast experiment over the last half-century that is doomed to fail. I think that if he was speaking now he would see that what is being formed lacks even the pretence of being civilised.
“The world is trying the experiment of attempting to form a civilized but non-Christian mentality. The experiment will fail; but we must be very patient in awaiting its collapse; meanwhile redeeming the time; so that the Faith may be preserved alive through the dark ages before us; to renew and rebuild civilization, and to save the world from suicide.” —T. S. Eliot, “Thoughts After Lambeth”
I find W.B. Yeats’ “The Second Coming” so threatening, and yet so strangely beautiful, that I actually turn to T.S. Eliot for comfort after reading it.
The manifestation of Tony Blair is not redolent of the rapture, which is the taking up of the Church to meet our Lord in the air when he comes, but rather the Abomination of Desolation of which the prophet Daniel spoke. When a great evil is set up in the very temple itself, and is worshipped as if it were of God.
“So the Euro Army is high on President Hollande’s agenda for talks with David Cameron.
Now I wonder who would end up running that if anybody signed up to it…?” (Malfleur May 19th 11.54)
“When a new British Prime Minister takes office, he goes immediately to Buckingham Palace to kiss hands with the Monarch. When a new French President takes office, he goes immediately to Berlin to kiss hands with the Chancellor of Germany. Why does nobody comment on this? Is it because it is too embarrassing to acknowledge the tragic truth, that France is a German vassal?” (Peter Hitchens May 21st DT)
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2146903/Why-defeat-evil-empire–embrace-stupid-one.html#ixzz1vRofqLoT
By the way, the DT is “no longer accepting comments on” Peter Hitchens’ article referred to above on the colonial nature of the EU (and other topics of intterest to those saddened or frustrated by what is happening to England) which was originally published in the DT on 19th May. No comments are shown. There have in fact been comments made and which as usual with the DT often pungent and pointed; but to see them you have to click on the “To comment on this article, click here” button which transfers you to another page where the old comments are set out and where there is a box for making more. Whether it works or not, I don’t know; but most people will have been dissuaded from arriving there in the first place. Is Peter Hitchens in the course of being made a non-person by the Barclay Brothers? Not of course that publishers have any control over editorial decisions….May be I misunderstand.
Now, among the comments on Mr. Hitchens’ article on the Stupid Empire which have been banished to an obscure corner of the DT’s website is one by Denis Cooper. Readers of the old Spectator Wall, also done in by the handmaidens of the B brothers will remember his erudite and pointed commentary on EU matters. On this occasion in the DT his contribution was as follows:
“This Wednesday, May 23rd, the House of Lords will give a Second Reading to a Bill to approve a radical EU treaty change. Before the general election the Tory party gave it to be understood that if any treaty changes were wanted by other EU countries then that would be taken as an opportunity to negotiate the return of powers, but on March 25th 2011 Cameron gave Merkel the treaty change she demanded and asked for nothing in return. Also before the election the Tory party gave it to be understood that we would have referendums on any future treaty changes, but last October Hague ruled that this major treaty change would not be put to a referendum. There is now an e-petition calling for a referendum, which may easily be found by putting the phrase “the planned European Union (Approval of Treaty Amendment Decision) Bill should include provision for a UK referendum on the relevant EU treaty change” into google. Posted by: Denis Cooper | 20 May 2012 at 01:52 PM”
Marat, we’re marching on, behind Napoleon.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcJKxrDczSo&feature=related
What the DT is saying, what the government is saying, what the political class and the EU Commissioners and jobsworths are saying, what the rest of the media are saying is: “There, there, England, go back to sleep now like a good little baby”.
AWK1 20th, – 21:32
Aye; I like Eliot’s ‘Journey of the Magi’ too.
Yes indeed, Malfleur. It’s as though freedom of speech had never existed in Britain. That it is a chimera that people heard about but that had never been real.
As in the current media complicity in the muslim raping of little British girls and selling them on, or rentig them out, to be raped by more men.
It’s all very vaguely disapproved of and is always accompanied by the phrase “very small minority”.
Not one journalist has written, or perhaps I should say that not one journalist WHO HAS NOT BEEN BLUE-PENCILLED has written: “Of course, the Sahara Desert sect was formed by a noted paedophile who “married” and raped little girls. One such was Aisha who the sect-leader, mohammad, “married” when she was six years of age, and was only dissuaded from raping her at that age by other men who said she was “too small”. The sect leader, who was also an epileptic, was persuaded not to rape her until she was nine.” Nine seems to be a popular age for little English girls to be raped by muslims.
Strange that I have never read this paragraph in a British newspaperr either as a comment on the current events, or before.
Odd that this absolutely critical fact is never mentioned in the British media in stories of the bestial and illegal rapes of little British girls by the sons of the paedopile prophet.
Malfleur – re Hitchens and the DT – perhaps you mean the DM in which case, the Channel Isle twins are innocent
I mean, it seems strange, doesn’t it, given what pride they all take in their prophet, that they make no allusion to the fact that it was noted during his lifetime that mo’ raped little girls as a matter of course. And that this might have some bearing on the horrendous crimes being perpetrated on little British girls in their own country, where they do not enjoy the protection of the courts.
I mean, when you think of all the contumely, and endless column inches, the one Gary Glitter case was accorded …
Regarding the BNP, it is my opinion that there are a number of posters seeking to somehow rehabilitate this mob, to point up that they are preferential to Muslims and somehow an alternative mainstream party.
Well, it’s not going to happen. Yes, almost anybody is preferential to the Muslims but all the BNP have going for them is a wish to rid the UK of aliens – a commendable ambition in my opinion, but one they’ll never get a chance to fulfil because the rest of their aims are pure Labour.
The BNP deserve some credit for being an effective pressure group, for bringing the problems with Muslims stage front and centre, for acting at a local level to highlight the iniquities of the treatment of foreigners over locals.
But they will never be a mainstream party.
And sorry if you think ‘Firstly’ is pretentious when dealing with points in order Verity. What do you suggest?
Frank Sutton
Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
Clear Memories asks: “And sorry if you think ‘Firstly’ is pretentious when dealing with points in order Verity. What do you suggest?”
First.
Take it up past “fourthly” to see how pretentious and pointless it is.
On your other issue, you say the BNP will never be a mainstream party. Well, I don’t know anything about them, but I know that the “Liberal-Democrats”, whatever the hell that is supposed to mean, are considered enough of a “mainstream” party to prop the crippled Tories up.
In what way are the Liberal-Democrats a more realistic propositiion than the BNP? I ask out of genuine interest. What gives the Lib-Dems credibility where such is denied to the BNP?
The waste-of-space Lib-Dems have some support in the dead tree press, even if that support amounts to no more than reporting them accurately. The BNP, on the other hand, have none. Indeed, NUJ guidelines are to ensure that, even where the BNP or its members might be in the right, care is to be taken to ensure no reporting shows them in a favourable light.
And without coverage from the media and especially the BBC in anything other than a favourable light, I fear they will go nowhere.
But I think you miss the point. Why do we need another left-of-centre party? We’ve got at least three centre/left-of-centre parties and UKIP, which is sadly a single issue party at present. The best the latter can hope for is a coalition position at the next election having replaced the Lib-Dems.
The UK simply does not have a right-wing party. And by that I mean a party that supports small government, local democracy, anti-EU, anti-immigration, pro-western ‘values’. The problem is that the Tories claim this ground and tick all the boxes (in peoples perception) But, in practice, they are at best, centrists. There are a few honourable exceptions (Davis, Redwood) but they have nowhere to go short of leaving and starting a new Party.
Clear Memories … “The UK simply does not have a right-wing party. And by that I mean a party that supports small government, local democracy, anti-EU, anti-immigration, pro-western ‘values’. ”
Well, yes it does, actually. UKIP stands for all those things although, obviously, UK independence is the most urgently in need of concentrated attention. It is sinister, to my thinking, how little support UKIP gets in the press on all the issues it addresses. The esablishment, and that includes the media, want to portray it is a one-issue loony party.
Why is that?
In what way is it in the interest of the British media, by and large, to portray a calm, rational, articulate, patriotic party as a party of nut cases?
How is it that Nigel Farage, certainly one of the most spontaneously witty and articulate politicians on the scene gets so little coverage, when Dave gets blanket coverage for pretending to cheer for an American football team or eat a hot dog or whine on, and (on, and on and on) about his family?
Dave Co-Moron has the brains and ambition of a greedy flea. Nigel is spontaneously witty and gives sound, spontaneous, serious aswers to serious questions. The fault for lack of coverage lies not with UKIP.
Clear Memories … one reason the BNP doesn’t get rational coverage is, Nick Griffiths is not a public school boy. He is not in the club! He is common. He probably wouldn’t know a decent Montrechat from a California Beaujolais! I mean, my dear!
Dear God!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2147555/Jobseekers-care-patients-hospitals-unpaid-work-experience.html
Is Britain the most stupid country in the world?
Verity: A new week has started! I’ve answered your question on the new blog 🙂
A “new week” in P of M’s mind is tomorrow … not today, Monday May 21.